156 Discussions
As an example, the character 空 takes both the meanings "empty" (kong1) and "free time" (kong4). In the wordlists, these are separate words.
When I'm being tested on the character It's not obvious which meaning Memrise is looking for, and you get marked wrong if you didn't pick the right one.
When I'm being tested on the character It's not obvious which meaning Memrise is looking for, and you get marked wrong if you didn't pick the right one.
26 comments
Latest 5 hours, 10 minutes ago
I just started getting questions that require me to answer in pinyin, but nowhere along the way did I get any lessons in what it is or how I'm supposed to answer. I also do not understand the explanation of something like OLD = LAO3. What is the 3? I was cranking along doing quite well I thought, then I ran into this and have hit a wall as there was no tutorial covering this piece. I searched thru this forum as well looking for every post with pinyin and while I have a better understanding of what it is now, I still don't know how to use it. Thanks!
25 comments
Latest 6 hours, 27 minutes ago
chrisxjohnson 3 weeks, 1 day ago
Yo dude,
Yes, you have to learn the pronunciation of the pinyin before it becomes meaningful. It is not simply the same as the English pronunciation. All I can suggest is looking it up on Google or Wikipedia to get the basic phonics down, then as you listen to the sound files on here, you can check how the pinyin is pronounced and you will get used to it (eventually!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
You will definitely pick it up over time. Pay attention to the pinyin spelling of characters though, because this is how you can input Chinese if you want to type on your computer. If you spell the pinyin wrong you won't get the correct character. So the pinyin is important.
Check out this link for an explanation of the tones in Mandarin and what the numbers mean:
http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
Basically dude you will have a shagload of questions at the start, but if you stick with it you will pick it up. And anything can be answered with a bit of research on Google.
Chris
Yo dude,
Yes, you have to learn the pronunciation of the pinyin before it becomes meaningful. It is not simply the same as the English pronunciation. All I can suggest is looking it up on Google or Wikipedia to get the basic phonics down, then as you listen to the sound files on here, you can check how the pinyin is pronounced and you will get used to it (eventually!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
You will definitely pick it up over time. Pay attention to the pinyin spelling of characters though, because this is how you can input Chinese if you want to type on your computer. If you spell the pinyin wrong you won't get the correct character. So the pinyin is important.
Check out this link for an explanation of the tones in Mandarin and what the numbers mean:
http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
Basically dude you will have a shagload of questions at the start, but if you stick with it you will pick it up. And anything can be answered with a bit of research on Google.
Chris
benwhately 3 weeks, 1 day ago
Also, you might want to try out the "tone game" - www.memrise.com/tonegame which should give you a good introduction to recognising the different tones and some tips on how to remember them.
Thanks!
Ben
Also, you might want to try out the "tone game" - www.memrise.com/tonegame which should give you a good introduction to recognising the different tones and some tips on how to remember them.
Thanks!
Ben
robr 3 weeks, 1 day ago
thanks, im starting to get it, but i find this part much more difficult that memorizing the symbols. for the creators of this software, i think there should be more training on the pinyin part. so far everything else has been pretty great. i did look up pinyin on wikipedia before posting, but it wasn't all that helpful at first until i realized what was expected in the training sessions. thanks for the tips and i will check out the tone game as well
thanks, im starting to get it, but i find this part much more difficult that memorizing the symbols. for the creators of this software, i think there should be more training on the pinyin part. so far everything else has been pretty great. i did look up pinyin on wikipedia before posting, but it wasn't all that helpful at first until i realized what was expected in the training sessions. thanks for the tips and i will check out the tone game as well
robr 3 weeks ago
It also just clicked for me that pinyin is *NOT* the pronunciation of the words. It's CLOSE in most cases, but ri4, the pinyin for sun, doesn't sound much like 'ree' at all when spoken. That may be obvious to most, but I didn't catch on that pinyin != pronunciation for quite a while.
It also just clicked for me that pinyin is *NOT* the pronunciation of the words. It's CLOSE in most cases, but ri4, the pinyin for sun, doesn't sound much like 'ree' at all when spoken. That may be obvious to most, but I didn't catch on that pinyin != pronunciation for quite a while.
benwhately 3 weeks ago
@robr, I totally agree with you - pinyin is not a very intuitive way to render Chinese sounds in roman letters, at least for English-speakers. I have heard that it works better for German speakers I think.
I would love to just use the Gwoyeu Romatzyh romanisation system which is, I think, much more intuitive and also gets around the tones in a much simpler way. But annoyingly if you learn that then you still need to learn pinyin in order to be able to type in Chinese etc... so it is a bit of a losing battle!
And I promise, you do get used to pinyin pretty soon!
Best wishes
Ben
@robr, I totally agree with you - pinyin is not a very intuitive way to render Chinese sounds in roman letters, at least for English-speakers. I have heard that it works better for German speakers I think.
I would love to just use the Gwoyeu Romatzyh romanisation system which is, I think, much more intuitive and also gets around the tones in a much simpler way. But annoyingly if you learn that then you still need to learn pinyin in order to be able to type in Chinese etc... so it is a bit of a losing battle!
And I promise, you do get used to pinyin pretty soon!
Best wishes
Ben
ThatHorse 2 weeks, 5 days ago
If anyone thinks it would be worthwhile I could think of how to make a course on pinyin. I suspect it may be not worthwhile though, as it would just involve people typing English approximations of the tricks of pinyin. Maybe just doing a course that has 100% of the audio and good examples of the progressively stranger exceptions would be best.
If anyone thinks it would be worthwhile I could think of how to make a course on pinyin. I suspect it may be not worthwhile though, as it would just involve people typing English approximations of the tricks of pinyin. Maybe just doing a course that has 100% of the audio and good examples of the progressively stranger exceptions would be best.
carl_a 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Its interesting to think about what it would be like if one tried to use Memrise to teach English in the same way...it simply wouldn't work, because English doesn't really have any officially standardized pronunciation. Ben Whately and I probably sound very different. This narrow Chinese that we are testing ourselves on, is *somewhat* standardized, but variation in the actual language is partly what makes it so difficult. For example, I've been left wondering why the pinyin for one word might be "si4" and another "se4". The application of the fifth tone is also mysterious, because it is often indistinguishable in the recorded words. In my experience, some of hardest words to remember are the result of a recording that sounds different to me than what Memrise wants. I'm not sure about this, but I think most native speakers would simply assert that pinyin isn't really Chinese, so this stuff doesn't matter. When using pinyin for computer input the tones aren't used.
Its interesting to think about what it would be like if one tried to use Memrise to teach English in the same way...it simply wouldn't work, because English doesn't really have any officially standardized pronunciation. Ben Whately and I probably sound very different. This narrow Chinese that we are testing ourselves on, is *somewhat* standardized, but variation in the actual language is partly what makes it so difficult. For example, I've been left wondering why the pinyin for one word might be "si4" and another "se4". The application of the fifth tone is also mysterious, because it is often indistinguishable in the recorded words. In my experience, some of hardest words to remember are the result of a recording that sounds different to me than what Memrise wants. I'm not sure about this, but I think most native speakers would simply assert that pinyin isn't really Chinese, so this stuff doesn't matter. When using pinyin for computer input the tones aren't used.
ThatHorse 2 weeks, 5 days ago
carl_a, when you are going through a course and you find that some audio is questionable or misleading you, you can leave a comment and perhaps someone will be able to upload better audio or remove the troublesome audio.
ben, perhaps reacting to things that give us trouble should be more actively encouraged in the site's layout. people should know that they can just pop in and open a discussion any time there's something questionable, i think not enough people are aware of this
carl_a, when you are going through a course and you find that some audio is questionable or misleading you, you can leave a comment and perhaps someone will be able to upload better audio or remove the troublesome audio.
ben, perhaps reacting to things that give us trouble should be more actively encouraged in the site's layout. people should know that they can just pop in and open a discussion any time there's something questionable, i think not enough people are aware of this
robr 2 weeks, 5 days ago
I tried to find a place for feedback right on the page where I had a questionable issue but it wasn't obvious (I never did find it). I don't think a whole course in pinyin is needed, just perhaps include an intro to pinyin that explains what it is, what it's used for, what it's NOT used for... etc before jumping into that first question where you need to know it. I get it now, but it took going outside the tutorial to gather the necessary info to understand what was being asked of me.
I tried to find a place for feedback right on the page where I had a questionable issue but it wasn't obvious (I never did find it). I don't think a whole course in pinyin is needed, just perhaps include an intro to pinyin that explains what it is, what it's used for, what it's NOT used for... etc before jumping into that first question where you need to know it. I get it now, but it took going outside the tutorial to gather the necessary info to understand what was being asked of me.
carl_a 2 weeks, 5 days ago
robr, I have had excellent results getting alternates added when I think they are valid. Basically, you start a discussion on the word page. I wish there was a way to do this 'on the fly' when you're going through the words though.
ThatHorse, The problem with the audio is that I am unqualified to determine what is good or bad. Really, a native speaker would probably be required. Its hard to think of a great example at the moment. Maybe "sheng", which I've heard natives say as "shen" with now hint of a "ng" sound. These are probably genuine variations in how Chinese is spoken.
robr, I have had excellent results getting alternates added when I think they are valid. Basically, you start a discussion on the word page. I wish there was a way to do this 'on the fly' when you're going through the words though.
ThatHorse, The problem with the audio is that I am unqualified to determine what is good or bad. Really, a native speaker would probably be required. Its hard to think of a great example at the moment. Maybe "sheng", which I've heard natives say as "shen" with now hint of a "ng" sound. These are probably genuine variations in how Chinese is spoken.
benwhately 2 weeks, 5 days ago
@carl_a - you can add comments to words from within learning sessions by clicking "start discussion from the menu at the top - does that help?
@ThatHorse, I agree, we clearly need to make the forums much more visible and people don't seem to realise that there is an option to post questions here. I think that we are going to change the feedback box at the end of a learning session to a kind of window to the forums so that you can search or post new threads from there - at the moment all those feedback responses go to me, but I just don't have time to reply to them all at the moment, and it would be much better to keep the discussion all on the forums so that everyone can get involved. How does that sound?
Pinyin is a kind of painful necessity; I don't think that is a good romanisation system, but annoyingly it is the one that all typing systems run off. So you really need to learn it. And while the tone change rules are clumsy and seemingly arbitrary, learning pronunciation without the tones is not a good short cut; it will lead to you really not being understood. So we need to do something to introduce pinyin and its idiosyncrasies.
I am going to work on an intro, and we are going to try to build a place to put it on the new dashboard design, so that it pops up for you when it becomes relevant. I will aim to do this in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks very much for all the feedback on this,
Thanks
Ben
@carl_a - you can add comments to words from within learning sessions by clicking "start discussion from the menu at the top - does that help?
@ThatHorse, I agree, we clearly need to make the forums much more visible and people don't seem to realise that there is an option to post questions here. I think that we are going to change the feedback box at the end of a learning session to a kind of window to the forums so that you can search or post new threads from there - at the moment all those feedback responses go to me, but I just don't have time to reply to them all at the moment, and it would be much better to keep the discussion all on the forums so that everyone can get involved. How does that sound?
Pinyin is a kind of painful necessity; I don't think that is a good romanisation system, but annoyingly it is the one that all typing systems run off. So you really need to learn it. And while the tone change rules are clumsy and seemingly arbitrary, learning pronunciation without the tones is not a good short cut; it will lead to you really not being understood. So we need to do something to introduce pinyin and its idiosyncrasies.
I am going to work on an intro, and we are going to try to build a place to put it on the new dashboard design, so that it pops up for you when it becomes relevant. I will aim to do this in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks very much for all the feedback on this,
Thanks
Ben
carl_a 2 weeks, 5 days ago
benwhatley: Thanks, I've been using Memrise for over a month, and didn't know there was a menu there.
This is a little off subject, but I've also seen instances in a learning environment where tone marks are drawn above Chinese characters as a learning aid. That might be difficult to implement within the scope of this site, but it is also (possibly) useful.
I think part of the answer is more audio clips. It would be great to have a dozen or more examples.
benwhatley: Thanks, I've been using Memrise for over a month, and didn't know there was a menu there.
This is a little off subject, but I've also seen instances in a learning environment where tone marks are drawn above Chinese characters as a learning aid. That might be difficult to implement within the scope of this site, but it is also (possibly) useful.
I think part of the answer is more audio clips. It would be great to have a dozen or more examples.
robr 2 weeks, 5 days ago
I don't know that a dozen examples are needed, just good examples. As mentioned above, there are some words where the sound samples are quite different ('sun' comes to mind). Also in some of them that are for example a '3' tone, the samples are spoken as though they are a 2. This also occurs in the tone game.
I don't know that a dozen examples are needed, just good examples. As mentioned above, there are some words where the sound samples are quite different ('sun' comes to mind). Also in some of them that are for example a '3' tone, the samples are spoken as though they are a 2. This also occurs in the tone game.
ThatHorse 1 week, 3 days ago
Any thoughts/advice on starting a pinyin course? I have a complete outline of the information, it's just a matter of how you think it should be fit into Memrise's infrastructure. Let's say you want to have people learn that qiu is kind of like chyo. Kind of weird isn't it?
Any thoughts/advice on starting a pinyin course? I have a complete outline of the information, it's just a matter of how you think it should be fit into Memrise's infrastructure. Let's say you want to have people learn that qiu is kind of like chyo. Kind of weird isn't it?
robr 1 week, 3 days ago
For me it was more about understanding the tones (maybe integrate the tone game, or a limited version of it... I didn't even know about the tone game until someone posted here) and explain what pinyin is and isn't. What it's intended for. I still am having spelling problems like spelling NEU vs NIU vs NYU and getting it correct. Any help there is a huge plus.
For me it was more about understanding the tones (maybe integrate the tone game, or a limited version of it... I didn't even know about the tone game until someone posted here) and explain what pinyin is and isn't. What it's intended for. I still am having spelling problems like spelling NEU vs NIU vs NYU and getting it correct. Any help there is a huge plus.
ThatHorse 1 week, 3 days ago
After looking at it recently, I think the key to getting a solid start as far as pinyin goes is to first master all the finals. Syllables can be divided into initials and finals, i.g. in "mao", "m" is the initial sound and "ao" is the final.
In my opinion here are the finals for pinyin that an English speaker would need to learn something about:
ou -> sounds like the long "oh" bound
i -> the long e sound that i takes in romantic languages. but note that i is also used in 3 unrelated ways: shi (kind of like sure) chi (kind of like chur) and si (kind of like suh)
a -> the short a sound, "ah"
o -> if "ou" is long o, then what the heck is this? if it has an ending, it's still the long o, e.g. "ong" sounds like just how you would expect it if you tried to use the long o vowel like in boat. but by itself, e.g. "bo" it for some reason kind of sounds like "bwo", so think of o by itself as mangled by some invisible consantant, maybe a w.
e -> typically an "uh" sound. ge = guh
u -> a long "oo" sound, like ooh!
v -> also written as a dotted u. it's that french sound kind of like ew but more exaggerated.
exceptions:
ju, qu, xu, actually have the v sound, not a u (long oo as you might expect).
yu has a slight "eh" at the end of it. yv-eh blended together.
iu sounds like "yo"
ui sounds like "way"
un sounds like "yoo-in"
that's all (i hope) you need to know about the finals, so now when you put a familiar sound in front of them, like a "b", you probably are pretty close, besides the tone. but there are a few weird initials in pinyin too, real quick:
zh is kinda like a j
q is kinda like a ch
x is kinda like an sh
c is kinda like a t or s, like the last sound in "cats"
vowel blends in the final can be pronounced like y (if it's an i") or w (if it's a u). e.g. qiang (chee-yahng), huan (hwahn). Though in pinyin these are part of the finals I think it's easier for the English speaker to think of them as secret consanant blends.
After looking at it recently, I think the key to getting a solid start as far as pinyin goes is to first master all the finals. Syllables can be divided into initials and finals, i.g. in "mao", "m" is the initial sound and "ao" is the final.
In my opinion here are the finals for pinyin that an English speaker would need to learn something about:
ou -> sounds like the long "oh" bound
i -> the long e sound that i takes in romantic languages. but note that i is also used in 3 unrelated ways: shi (kind of like sure) chi (kind of like chur) and si (kind of like suh)
a -> the short a sound, "ah"
o -> if "ou" is long o, then what the heck is this? if it has an ending, it's still the long o, e.g. "ong" sounds like just how you would expect it if you tried to use the long o vowel like in boat. but by itself, e.g. "bo" it for some reason kind of sounds like "bwo", so think of o by itself as mangled by some invisible consantant, maybe a w.
e -> typically an "uh" sound. ge = guh
u -> a long "oo" sound, like ooh!
v -> also written as a dotted u. it's that french sound kind of like ew but more exaggerated.
exceptions:
ju, qu, xu, actually have the v sound, not a u (long oo as you might expect).
yu has a slight "eh" at the end of it. yv-eh blended together.
iu sounds like "yo"
ui sounds like "way"
un sounds like "yoo-in"
that's all (i hope) you need to know about the finals, so now when you put a familiar sound in front of them, like a "b", you probably are pretty close, besides the tone. but there are a few weird initials in pinyin too, real quick:
zh is kinda like a j
q is kinda like a ch
x is kinda like an sh
c is kinda like a t or s, like the last sound in "cats"
vowel blends in the final can be pronounced like y (if it's an i") or w (if it's a u). e.g. qiang (chee-yahng), huan (hwahn). Though in pinyin these are part of the finals I think it's easier for the English speaker to think of them as secret consanant blends.
joulieboolie 1 week ago
Thanks, this discussion was hugely helpful to me, in particular this link that was given: http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen.... It would be extra helpful if the course gave a quick review of that info before the questions on the pinyin start up.
Now I've run across a word, dumpling, that has a 5 in the pinyin, so either there are more than 4 tones or it's a typo, so now I'm back to investigating :)
Thanks, this discussion was hugely helpful to me, in particular this link that was given: http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen.... It would be extra helpful if the course gave a quick review of that info before the questions on the pinyin start up.
Now I've run across a word, dumpling, that has a 5 in the pinyin, so either there are more than 4 tones or it's a typo, so now I'm back to investigating :)
carl_a 1 week ago
The 5th tone is one of the deep mysteries of pinyin, because it doesnsn't seem to be consistently applied. In the page you linked to it is listed as 'neutral'. However, in the context of a testing scheme like pinyin, this kind of vagueness in language is a real problem. When I go through the lists now, most of what I get wrong are tones. My difficulties also involves the transformation rules where a tone changes due to the other character its paired with.
The 5th tone is one of the deep mysteries of pinyin, because it doesnsn't seem to be consistently applied. In the page you linked to it is listed as 'neutral'. However, in the context of a testing scheme like pinyin, this kind of vagueness in language is a real problem. When I go through the lists now, most of what I get wrong are tones. My difficulties also involves the transformation rules where a tone changes due to the other character its paired with.
mfgillia 5 days, 20 hours ago
Ben seems a bit down on pinyin but for most of us its just a natural part of learning correct Chinese pronunciation and tones.
Many basic Chinese books attempt to teach it by giving suggestions similar to what ThatHorse has included above. However, I really don't think most mortals could ever learn correct Chinese pronunciation that way.
My own pronunciation and tones were pretty horrible until I spent a few months with a native speaker (in my case, my Chinese tutor) going over together the pinyin chart fixing my pronunciation errors and teaching me how to speak the tones for each item on the table and then later working on the tonal changes that occur when different words follow each other.
While incredibly boring and a bit painful without the positive feedback of finishing lessons in a Chinese book or adding words to one's garden, if I had done that in the very beginning it would of saved a great deal of time in the long run.
Once the words are in your head ingrained with the wrong pronunciation, it can be quite time consuming (and more than a bit demoralizing) to fix that later.
Ben seems a bit down on pinyin but for most of us its just a natural part of learning correct Chinese pronunciation and tones.
Many basic Chinese books attempt to teach it by giving suggestions similar to what ThatHorse has included above. However, I really don't think most mortals could ever learn correct Chinese pronunciation that way.
My own pronunciation and tones were pretty horrible until I spent a few months with a native speaker (in my case, my Chinese tutor) going over together the pinyin chart fixing my pronunciation errors and teaching me how to speak the tones for each item on the table and then later working on the tonal changes that occur when different words follow each other.
While incredibly boring and a bit painful without the positive feedback of finishing lessons in a Chinese book or adding words to one's garden, if I had done that in the very beginning it would of saved a great deal of time in the long run.
Once the words are in your head ingrained with the wrong pronunciation, it can be quite time consuming (and more than a bit demoralizing) to fix that later.
ThatHorse 5 days, 19 hours ago
I agree that correct pronunciation takes some real contact with someone who truly speaks (and hears) at a native speaker ability. I think learning some quick facts in an efficient Memrise-like way would make you more ready to absorb those finishing touches though. That's why what I wrote above doesn't get into some of those final touches which you can do easily, but not by memorizing: things like the tones, the difference between q and ch, sh and x. Sure they can all be explained, but you have to really _do_ them to learn them, and there's no speaking testing on Memrise as of now. Would be pretty cool if there was some way to get your pronunciation graded by crowdsourcing though wouldn't it? :-)
I agree that correct pronunciation takes some real contact with someone who truly speaks (and hears) at a native speaker ability. I think learning some quick facts in an efficient Memrise-like way would make you more ready to absorb those finishing touches though. That's why what I wrote above doesn't get into some of those final touches which you can do easily, but not by memorizing: things like the tones, the difference between q and ch, sh and x. Sure they can all be explained, but you have to really _do_ them to learn them, and there's no speaking testing on Memrise as of now. Would be pretty cool if there was some way to get your pronunciation graded by crowdsourcing though wouldn't it? :-)
mfgillia 5 days, 2 hours ago
Not to be the voice of negativity but I think most people that skip the process of learning correct pronunciation and tones from a native speaker and instead focus primarily on spending hundreds of hours acquiring a detailed vocabulary will later require much more work than just adding some finishing touches to be understood by native speakers.
From my experience, you will have to relearn most of your vocabulary. Regarding pronunciation and tones, what seems like close to a native English speaker is generally a huge difference to a native Chinese speaker.
From reading these forums, I occasionally get the impression some people are relying solely on this site to learn Chinese. While Memrise is a wonderful, awesome, fantastic, invaluable tool for learning to recognize Chinese characters, it can not replace the use of textbooks, classes, interactions with native speakers and teachers/tutors for learning Chinese that will be useful for real communication.
Heaven knows I've tried over the years to skip many of these steps to learn faster and most of the time learned the hard way that doing so required much more time in the long run to get to the same level.
So... I highly recommend new students spend lots of time first learning and drilling correct pronunciation with a native speaker and then when they use tools like Memrise they can practice and reinforce what they learn every time they see a character versus doubling down on mistakes.
Not to be the voice of negativity but I think most people that skip the process of learning correct pronunciation and tones from a native speaker and instead focus primarily on spending hundreds of hours acquiring a detailed vocabulary will later require much more work than just adding some finishing touches to be understood by native speakers.
From my experience, you will have to relearn most of your vocabulary. Regarding pronunciation and tones, what seems like close to a native English speaker is generally a huge difference to a native Chinese speaker.
From reading these forums, I occasionally get the impression some people are relying solely on this site to learn Chinese. While Memrise is a wonderful, awesome, fantastic, invaluable tool for learning to recognize Chinese characters, it can not replace the use of textbooks, classes, interactions with native speakers and teachers/tutors for learning Chinese that will be useful for real communication.
Heaven knows I've tried over the years to skip many of these steps to learn faster and most of the time learned the hard way that doing so required much more time in the long run to get to the same level.
So... I highly recommend new students spend lots of time first learning and drilling correct pronunciation with a native speaker and then when they use tools like Memrise they can practice and reinforce what they learn every time they see a character versus doubling down on mistakes.
ThatHorse 4 days, 9 hours ago
mfgillia is right, and I hope I didn't lead anyone stray with my "finishing touches" remark. You will have to get those sounds right early on and be working on it right away. Acquiring a bunch of vocab that you are learning to say wrong will really waste a lot of your time.
I notice a lot of mems seem to imply that people might be saying "si" as "see" or shi with a short i for example. I hope these people are just using spelling as a mneumonic but I think you may be correct that many of them are indeed learning and practicing the wrong pronunciation. This is a huge problem that should be acted on ASAP because of all the waste created by this situation.
Memrise is awesome because I can get a lot of practice recognizing characters and recalling their meanings, but this is only a tool to help you go out there and really read, and perhaps write, and perhaps speak. Vocab is necessary but not sufficient, and vocab with the wrong pronunciation is not even that. mfgillia is 100% right.
mfgillia is right, and I hope I didn't lead anyone stray with my "finishing touches" remark. You will have to get those sounds right early on and be working on it right away. Acquiring a bunch of vocab that you are learning to say wrong will really waste a lot of your time.
I notice a lot of mems seem to imply that people might be saying "si" as "see" or shi with a short i for example. I hope these people are just using spelling as a mneumonic but I think you may be correct that many of them are indeed learning and practicing the wrong pronunciation. This is a huge problem that should be acted on ASAP because of all the waste created by this situation.
Memrise is awesome because I can get a lot of practice recognizing characters and recalling their meanings, but this is only a tool to help you go out there and really read, and perhaps write, and perhaps speak. Vocab is necessary but not sufficient, and vocab with the wrong pronunciation is not even that. mfgillia is 100% right.
robr 10 hours, 2 minutes ago
Well, reading all is is certainly a bit disappointing but I'd rather have read it now before I invested hundreds of hours. Would it make more sense to have memrise focus more on the reading portion than the sounds and pinyin in the general lessons? I think it would be extremely helpful to make this information aware up front when people take that first step into learning chinese. Maybe a separate set of lessons could teach some sayings vs. just individual word pronunciation? I dunno.
Well, reading all is is certainly a bit disappointing but I'd rather have read it now before I invested hundreds of hours. Would it make more sense to have memrise focus more on the reading portion than the sounds and pinyin in the general lessons? I think it would be extremely helpful to make this information aware up front when people take that first step into learning chinese. Maybe a separate set of lessons could teach some sayings vs. just individual word pronunciation? I dunno.
carl_a 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
I think learning Mandarin will take many hours regardless of the approach. ;) I've decided to use word lists that match the textbooks I have. Its pretty valuable, because it provides a form of study which the textbook publisher doesn't provide. I can say pretty honestly that I know the vocabulary from the first two Integrated Chinese texts. All of it. That means when I go through the lessons I don't have to refer back to the vocabulary list.
I think learning Mandarin will take many hours regardless of the approach. ;) I've decided to use word lists that match the textbooks I have. Its pretty valuable, because it provides a form of study which the textbook publisher doesn't provide. I can say pretty honestly that I know the vocabulary from the first two Integrated Chinese texts. All of it. That means when I go through the lessons I don't have to refer back to the vocabulary list.
mfgillia 6 hours, 27 minutes ago
To Robr: I think Memrise is pretty much perfect just the way it is - as a supplement for studying Chinese.
After skipping characters for the first three years of studying, I went from not being able to recognize more than maybe 30 characters to somewhere over 1,800 in a few months. More importantly (to me), I can now comfortably read the first two chapters in my intermediate Chinese book.
In hindsight, I think an approach like Carl-a's is probably preferable for most people. That is, start with one of the better textbook series that provides a good mix of activities together with Memrise for really ingraining the vocabulary.
Regarding pinyin, I would treat that just like learning your alphabet in English focusing on being able to accurately replicate the 50 or so basic pinyin pronunciations in each of the 5 tones. There are many good electronic pinyin charts you can download that will let you click on each of these sounds and vary it by tone.
Working on that together with a native speaker that knows how to teach foreigners to duplicate these sounds will save you a lot of pain in the long run.
And as stated above, I absolutely do not advocate trying to figure out pinyin pronunciation by oneself from applying English language based rules. The basic sounds between English and Chinese are just too far apart. Plus, the rules that went into translating them into roman letters are far from intuitive for the typical adult native English speaker.
To Robr: I think Memrise is pretty much perfect just the way it is - as a supplement for studying Chinese.
After skipping characters for the first three years of studying, I went from not being able to recognize more than maybe 30 characters to somewhere over 1,800 in a few months. More importantly (to me), I can now comfortably read the first two chapters in my intermediate Chinese book.
In hindsight, I think an approach like Carl-a's is probably preferable for most people. That is, start with one of the better textbook series that provides a good mix of activities together with Memrise for really ingraining the vocabulary.
Regarding pinyin, I would treat that just like learning your alphabet in English focusing on being able to accurately replicate the 50 or so basic pinyin pronunciations in each of the 5 tones. There are many good electronic pinyin charts you can download that will let you click on each of these sounds and vary it by tone.
Working on that together with a native speaker that knows how to teach foreigners to duplicate these sounds will save you a lot of pain in the long run.
And as stated above, I absolutely do not advocate trying to figure out pinyin pronunciation by oneself from applying English language based rules. The basic sounds between English and Chinese are just too far apart. Plus, the rules that went into translating them into roman letters are far from intuitive for the typical adult native English speaker.
http://www.memrise.com/item... is set as a noun but it seems more appropriate to classify it as a verb, or at least add the "verb" category to the word. I've come across several of these classifications that seem weird to me, and I wonder if they can be changed. And if they're appropriate it would probably be good to add an explanation somewhere...
See also http://en.wiktionary.org/wi...
See also http://en.wiktionary.org/wi...
15 comments
Latest 13 hours, 32 minutes ago
benwhately 1 week, 3 days ago
Good spot - I have added in "verb" as a part of speech as well. To be honest I am not convinced of the value of learning parts of speech in Chinese - Chinese words just work in a different way and many (most?) words can fall into several of our part of speech categories. Please do keep noting if you see ones that look odd though and we can get them corrected.
You are right though, an explanation of the parts of speech in Chinese would be extremely useful. We are working on a tool that will make this kind of explanation much much easier to deliver.
Best wishes
Ben
Good spot - I have added in "verb" as a part of speech as well. To be honest I am not convinced of the value of learning parts of speech in Chinese - Chinese words just work in a different way and many (most?) words can fall into several of our part of speech categories. Please do keep noting if you see ones that look odd though and we can get them corrected.
You are right though, an explanation of the parts of speech in Chinese would be extremely useful. We are working on a tool that will make this kind of explanation much much easier to deliver.
Best wishes
Ben
guaka 1 week, 3 days ago
In my "Grammaire active du chinois" there's a table with word classes. 9 in French, 12 in Chinese (名词， 形容词， 量词， 数词，etc.) and some don't match indeed. If these word classes are commonly used in Chinese grammar it might be better to use the Chinese ones - or no word categories at all...
I'm looking forward to the tool! And I'll post here when coming across other confusing ones.
In my "Grammaire active du chinois" there's a table with word classes. 9 in French, 12 in Chinese (名词， 形容词， 量词， 数词，etc.) and some don't match indeed. If these word classes are commonly used in Chinese grammar it might be better to use the Chinese ones - or no word categories at all...
I'm looking forward to the tool! And I'll post here when coming across other confusing ones.
Azimuth 5 days, 20 hours ago
Ideally, words would be tagged with the Chinese word classes that guaka mentions (I agree that using English parts of speech is confusing). Doing this accurately by means of wiki edits might be a tall order though. I don't suppose there's a way of pulling this information from a publicly available database?
Ideally, words would be tagged with the Chinese word classes that guaka mentions (I agree that using English parts of speech is confusing). Doing this accurately by means of wiki edits might be a tall order though. I don't suppose there's a way of pulling this information from a publicly available database?
Azimuth 14 hours, 35 minutes ago
I modified the first two but my advice would be to ignore the parts of speech when being tested - if you're thinking "what verb could this be?" when trying to remember a word, it'll just mislead you. For example, your third example 宛 wăn could be just about any of the English parts of speech, according to which character it's paired with.
I modified the first two but my advice would be to ignore the parts of speech when being tested - if you're thinking "what verb could this be?" when trying to remember a word, it'll just mislead you. For example, your third example 宛 wăn could be just about any of the English parts of speech, according to which character it's paired with.
guaka 14 hours, 3 minutes ago
Thanks for fixing the first two.
I even think it might be better to not see the "parts of speech" when being tested. It often helps a lot (too much?) to get the right answer, unless it's not the right part of speech. If I see "noun; name" it's hard to come up with "indirect". So maybe it's better to simply remove "noun; name" in this case?
But then I looked up 宛... no clear answer. So I looked up "宛 indirect" and memrise is the second hit, the 9 other top 10 google results were Japanese. There may be a better word or even description in English for 宛?
Thanks for fixing the first two.
I even think it might be better to not see the "parts of speech" when being tested. It often helps a lot (too much?) to get the right answer, unless it's not the right part of speech. If I see "noun; name" it's hard to come up with "indirect". So maybe it's better to simply remove "noun; name" in this case?
But then I looked up 宛... no clear answer. So I looked up "宛 indirect" and memrise is the second hit, the 9 other top 10 google results were Japanese. There may be a better word or even description in English for 宛?
Azimuth 13 hours, 32 minutes ago
> I think even think it might be better to not see the "parts of speech" when being tested.
With the system as it is, I totally agree, but maybe it's hard to arrange this for Mandarin only.
The problem with assigning meaning is a perennial one for characters such as this that really only appear in a 'bound form', i.e. as part of a word with another character. According to my dictionary, it's 'indirect' because of 婉转 wănzhuăn 'indirect (in speaking); tactful'. This may also be related to its historical use and origin, I don't know.
The point is, the accuracy of the meaning for this character in isolation isn't *that* important - what is important is that you can recognise the character and its pronunciation, and then learn its meanings in combination with others. So you could learn this as any of its meanings like i) 'indirect; winding; torturous' or ii) 'as if; seemingly; just like'. (Where i) and ii) correspond to its most common meanings as part of a complete word).
The 'best' meaning is the one that allows you to most easily recognise it (and come up with a vivid mem), and to associate it with these common meanings. For this reason, I tend to think that the more concrete the meaning for bound forms and radicals/components, the better. In this case, all the meanings are fairly abstract.
So, if, having read all my blather, you would prefer a different meaning - maybe one of the ones I mentioned (which I've included as alternative meanings) just post a comment on the discussion tab at
http://www.memrise.com/item...
and someone (Ben, or me if I see it) will be happy to change it!
> I think even think it might be better to not see the "parts of speech" when being tested.
With the system as it is, I totally agree, but maybe it's hard to arrange this for Mandarin only.
The problem with assigning meaning is a perennial one for characters such as this that really only appear in a 'bound form', i.e. as part of a word with another character. According to my dictionary, it's 'indirect' because of 婉转 wănzhuăn 'indirect (in speaking); tactful'. This may also be related to its historical use and origin, I don't know.
The point is, the accuracy of the meaning for this character in isolation isn't *that* important - what is important is that you can recognise the character and its pronunciation, and then learn its meanings in combination with others. So you could learn this as any of its meanings like i) 'indirect; winding; torturous' or ii) 'as if; seemingly; just like'. (Where i) and ii) correspond to its most common meanings as part of a complete word).
The 'best' meaning is the one that allows you to most easily recognise it (and come up with a vivid mem), and to associate it with these common meanings. For this reason, I tend to think that the more concrete the meaning for bound forms and radicals/components, the better. In this case, all the meanings are fairly abstract.
So, if, having read all my blather, you would prefer a different meaning - maybe one of the ones I mentioned (which I've included as alternative meanings) just post a comment on the discussion tab at
http://www.memrise.com/item...
and someone (Ben, or me if I see it) will be happy to change it!
I have a slight problem with how Memrise handles parts of speech in the mandarin courses. Actually, it’s a ‘not-so-slight’ problem. According to the mandarin FAQ, each unique character is assigned all the parts of speech that is associated with the character. ("Many Chinese words can be more than one part of speech. In this case the all, separated by semi colons." ) However, this does not make sense because of Memrise’s implementation. When we are introduced to a character, we are introduced to one specific meaning, for example, 家 (home). According to Memrise, this character is both a noun and measure word. But, is the definition I learned for the noun or for the measure word? What if I wanted to use the character as a measure word? Do I actually know how to use the character as a measure word? For example, is it a measure word for buildings, homes, families, groups of people, lumbar, windows, etc? This is just a simple example. Another example is this character: 短 (duan3) which memrise has classified as an adjective and noun. The user learns the adjective meaning “short”, but is that the meaning of the noun as well? The ABC Dictionary (Defrancis/Yanyin) shows an entry for the verb form (to lack, to owe) and the bound form is “weak point”. I’ve seen other characters with even more “parts of speech” associated with them.
In some Chinese dictionaries I’ve seen, they differentiate the multiple interpretations of the character by part of speech explicitly, ex: (http://www.nciku.com/search...). Others just list out all the possible meanings of the character. I would prefer using English/Romance language parts of speech where possible, but that’s just because I don’t want to get into free morphemes vs. bound morphemes, etc. For more information on that, here’s a link.
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/...
In other languages (ex: Spanish), some words are differentiated by their part of speech and multiple entries exist. One example is the word ‘tarde’. If the part of speech is an adverb, I enter “late”, if it’s a noun, I enter “afternoon”. (I don’t need the definite article (“la”), because the part of speech determines how I should interpret and use this word.) I don’t find the different definitions confusing because my mind associates specific meanings based on the word’s part of speech.
Could memrise, split up a character’s meanings based on its part of speech (verb, adverb, pronoun, noun, adjective, measure word, preposition, radical, chengyu, phrase, etc.) and the specific definition associated with said part of speech?
example – entry 1 -家, noun, home; entry 2; 家, mw, mw for companies/families
If a character has multiple meanings that have the same part of speech, can we use some hint mechanism (e.g. verb 1) so that the user knows what to input?
In some Chinese dictionaries I’ve seen, they differentiate the multiple interpretations of the character by part of speech explicitly, ex: (http://www.nciku.com/search...). Others just list out all the possible meanings of the character. I would prefer using English/Romance language parts of speech where possible, but that’s just because I don’t want to get into free morphemes vs. bound morphemes, etc. For more information on that, here’s a link.
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/...
In other languages (ex: Spanish), some words are differentiated by their part of speech and multiple entries exist. One example is the word ‘tarde’. If the part of speech is an adverb, I enter “late”, if it’s a noun, I enter “afternoon”. (I don’t need the definite article (“la”), because the part of speech determines how I should interpret and use this word.) I don’t find the different definitions confusing because my mind associates specific meanings based on the word’s part of speech.
Could memrise, split up a character’s meanings based on its part of speech (verb, adverb, pronoun, noun, adjective, measure word, preposition, radical, chengyu, phrase, etc.) and the specific definition associated with said part of speech?
example – entry 1 -家, noun, home; entry 2; 家, mw, mw for companies/families
If a character has multiple meanings that have the same part of speech, can we use some hint mechanism (e.g. verb 1) so that the user knows what to input?
1 comment
Latest 13 hours, 52 minutes ago
Azimuth 13 hours, 52 minutes ago
Very interesting post, jennifer. My initial reaction is that I agree that the current system for parts of speech is confusing, and that more prominence needs to be given to alternative meanings. I'm not sure that separately teaching meanings according to parts of speech is the answer though.
First, I'm not sure that English/Romance categorisations are up to the job of classifying Hanzi in a non-confusing way. (Although I read the Rutgers slides, I'm not sure I understand your free/bound morphemes reasoning - maybe you could elaborate?)
Second and more important, the meaning of a character is usually the product of character combinations and/or the context of use. In real life, we will learn which meaning to assign a character according to these factors, not a categorisation of parts of speech.
I think therefore that testing should move towards simulating those conditions: more teaching-in-context (sentences, examples, fill in the blanks, etc). As users do this, they ought to progressively move away from English meanings altogether - after all, they can only be imperfect approximations of their Chinese meanings, and the sooner we can think of a character without thinking of it in translation, the better.
Very interesting post, jennifer. My initial reaction is that I agree that the current system for parts of speech is confusing, and that more prominence needs to be given to alternative meanings. I'm not sure that separately teaching meanings according to parts of speech is the answer though.
First, I'm not sure that English/Romance categorisations are up to the job of classifying Hanzi in a non-confusing way. (Although I read the Rutgers slides, I'm not sure I understand your free/bound morphemes reasoning - maybe you could elaborate?)
Second and more important, the meaning of a character is usually the product of character combinations and/or the context of use. In real life, we will learn which meaning to assign a character according to these factors, not a categorisation of parts of speech.
I think therefore that testing should move towards simulating those conditions: more teaching-in-context (sentences, examples, fill in the blanks, etc). As users do this, they ought to progressively move away from English meanings altogether - after all, they can only be imperfect approximations of their Chinese meanings, and the sooner we can think of a character without thinking of it in translation, the better.
Whenever I get a new character to memorize, I always like to go through all the mems to see which one best suits me. Now, however, you are no longer able to look at all of them. When you click on the next mem, it always skips the one in the middle. I can only hope this is a glitch and not an intentional move. When will it be fixed?
2 comments
Latest 23 hours, 35 minutes ago
benwhately 1 day, 8 hours ago
We are working on this right now and will have it fixed ASAP, I'm really sorry for the annoyance,
best wishes
Ben
We are working on this right now and will have it fixed ASAP, I'm really sorry for the annoyance,
best wishes
Ben
Currently, I'm 4779th. When I go onto the leaderboard for everyone, it only shows the top 100 people. I think it would be good if it could show people who are right near you on the leaderboard. Does anyone think the same?
4 comments
Latest 1 day ago
robr 2 weeks, 5 days ago
There are that many people doing this? I had assumed there are not many given I've only been doing this since Friday and somehow I'm ranked 26th. I do wish there was more of a competition element to this. My friend Dan turned me on to it and I'd love to see direct challenge info between us right on the tutorial pages.
There are that many people doing this? I had assumed there are not many given I've only been doing this since Friday and somehow I'm ranked 26th. I do wish there was more of a competition element to this. My friend Dan turned me on to it and I'd love to see direct challenge info between us right on the tutorial pages.
benwhately 2 weeks, 5 days ago
@robr, there are currently a bit over 120,000 people learning on Memrise, but the default ranking that you see is within your "cohort" - which is made up of the 100 (or it might be 250) people who joined at around the same time as you. Once you reach 50,000 points you will get a "global" ranking.
Hope that makes sense, sorry that it isn't clearer!
Best wishes
Ben
@robr, there are currently a bit over 120,000 people learning on Memrise, but the default ranking that you see is within your "cohort" - which is made up of the 100 (or it might be 250) people who joined at around the same time as you. Once you reach 50,000 points you will get a "global" ranking.
Hope that makes sense, sorry that it isn't clearer!
Best wishes
Ben
benwhately 2 weeks, 5 days ago
@Pokemaster, yes, this is a good point and we are going to do better things with the leaderboards soon,
Thanks
Ben
@Pokemaster, yes, this is a good point and we are going to do better things with the leaderboards soon,
Thanks
Ben
I prefer tone marks in Pinyin. When I have made my own word lists they sometimes pick-up pronunciations in pinyin with numbers instead of tone marks. I can't edit this. I much prefer tone marks as that is how I will be tested. Any solutions to change this?
20 comments
Latest 4 days, 1 hour ago
JeffHammerbacher 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I also prefer tone marks; however, using tone numbers makes the sets more accessible for users with keyboards that don't support tone marks. We also use v in place of ü for the same reason.
I also prefer tone marks; however, using tone numbers makes the sets more accessible for users with keyboards that don't support tone marks. We also use v in place of ü for the same reason.
benwhately 7 months, 2 weeks ago
We are just working on a solution which will let you do this, although it isn't without its own cost: you will be able to upload your list in whichever format you like and to say that you don't want to use any of the items that are in the Memrise database - at the moment it will give you the items in the database by default because this allows you to benefit from all the mems, samples etc that have been added by other people. The new system will mean that you can keep all of the words in the format that you like - using the diacritic lines. This is going to be along soon - but it will mean that the lists that you learn won't have any of the audio files, mems etc.In the future we may work on a system to allow you to choose the way that you se the tones, but I'm afraid that this won't be done in the near future - there is too much else to fit into the development plan. And thinking about it, when you were typing answers in pinyin I *think* that the only way to do this would still be to write the pinyin and then the number of the tone and have it automatically convert into the diacritic line. So on Memrise at least you would still be having to answer using the numbers. Which would be pretty confusing because you would be learning by looking at the words with the lines on them, and not the numbers. If there is another way to do this, please let me know, but without that it seems to me to be simpler to stick with one method to display and to answer pinyin questions.It is worth noting as well that the diacritic lines are really pretty misleading about what the tones should sound like, particularly with regards to the 3rd tone. I think that there is a strong pedagogical case to say that the lines make it harder to actually learn the tone because you become mislead into think that, for example, the 3rd tone goes down and up, which most of the time is just not true. Associating the tones with number can help to bypass this extra difficulty, although I also of course fully undertand that since you are going to be tested using the lines it might help you to learn with them as well.
We are just working on a solution which will let you do this, although it isn't without its own cost: you will be able to upload your list in whichever format you like and to say that you don't want to use any of the items that are in the Memrise database - at the moment it will give you the items in the database by default because this allows you to benefit from all the mems, samples etc that have been added by other people. The new system will mean that you can keep all of the words in the format that you like - using the diacritic lines. This is going to be along soon - but it will mean that the lists that you learn won't have any of the audio files, mems etc.In the future we may work on a system to allow you to choose the way that you se the tones, but I'm afraid that this won't be done in the near future - there is too much else to fit into the development plan. And thinking about it, when you were typing answers in pinyin I *think* that the only way to do this would still be to write the pinyin and then the number of the tone and have it automatically convert into the diacritic line. So on Memrise at least you would still be having to answer using the numbers. Which would be pretty confusing because you would be learning by looking at the words with the lines on them, and not the numbers. If there is another way to do this, please let me know, but without that it seems to me to be simpler to stick with one method to display and to answer pinyin questions.It is worth noting as well that the diacritic lines are really pretty misleading about what the tones should sound like, particularly with regards to the 3rd tone. I think that there is a strong pedagogical case to say that the lines make it harder to actually learn the tone because you become mislead into think that, for example, the 3rd tone goes down and up, which most of the time is just not true. Associating the tones with number can help to bypass this extra difficulty, although I also of course fully undertand that since you are going to be tested using the lines it might help you to learn with them as well.
thedannywahl 6 months, 1 week ago
I don't see why you couldn't still accept numbers when displaying tone marks.
I don't see why you couldn't still accept numbers when displaying tone marks.
thedannywahl 6 months, 1 week ago
I don't see why you couldn't still accept numbers when displaying tone marks.
I don't see why you couldn't still accept numbers when displaying tone marks.
phylae 4 months, 1 week ago
"I think that there is a strong pedagogical case to say that the lines make it harder to actually learn the tone..."I'd have to disagree that the case is strong. Most people learn a language from multiple sources. The tone markings above characters are a standard part of pinyin. Almost any other resource will use tone markings, not just numbers. Using standard pinyin better prepares students to use other learning materials.
"I think that there is a strong pedagogical case to say that the lines make it harder to actually learn the tone..."I'd have to disagree that the case is strong. Most people learn a language from multiple sources. The tone markings above characters are a standard part of pinyin. Almost any other resource will use tone markings, not just numbers. Using standard pinyin better prepares students to use other learning materials.
phylae 3 months, 1 week ago
You don't need a special keyboard to type tone marks. You do need to mess around with your keyboard input settings though, which is why I think that allowing users to input the pinyin with numbers is great.That said, I don't think that this is a good enough argument for not displaying pinyin in the standard way. I think it is a pretty small learning curve for people to learn the numbers of the four different tone markings, especially since any serious student will need to learn them anyway.As for for mems, it would likely be quite easy for memrise to automatically convert pinyin typed with numbers into pinyin typed with tone marks. That would keep things consistent without users needing to adjust their keyboard settings.What this ultimately comes down to is that memrise doesn't teach real pinyin. Learning how to pronounce wo3 does not teach you how to pronounce wǒ, and wǒ is what you will see pretty much everywhere besides memrise because wǒ is real pinyin and wo3 is not. Of course, you can argue that learning real pinyin doesn't matter because it is only an aid to learning pronunciation; once you know the pronunciation, how you got there isn't really relevant. However, I think that the enormous volume of materials available that use standard pinyin makes "how you get there" very relevant because you "get there" faster if you learn your pronunciation in a consistent way.
You don't need a special keyboard to type tone marks. You do need to mess around with your keyboard input settings though, which is why I think that allowing users to input the pinyin with numbers is great.That said, I don't think that this is a good enough argument for not displaying pinyin in the standard way. I think it is a pretty small learning curve for people to learn the numbers of the four different tone markings, especially since any serious student will need to learn them anyway.As for for mems, it would likely be quite easy for memrise to automatically convert pinyin typed with numbers into pinyin typed with tone marks. That would keep things consistent without users needing to adjust their keyboard settings.What this ultimately comes down to is that memrise doesn't teach real pinyin. Learning how to pronounce wo3 does not teach you how to pronounce wǒ, and wǒ is what you will see pretty much everywhere besides memrise because wǒ is real pinyin and wo3 is not. Of course, you can argue that learning real pinyin doesn't matter because it is only an aid to learning pronunciation; once you know the pronunciation, how you got there isn't really relevant. However, I think that the enormous volume of materials available that use standard pinyin makes "how you get there" very relevant because you "get there" faster if you learn your pronunciation in a consistent way.
maozhou 3 months ago
This is kind of funny conversation. I've seen pinyin displayed with diacriticals, and with the numbers only in textbooks. If you don't like one you can find books or teachers that use the other... I don't think its such a big deal since its a tool for pronunciation only and you should know and be comfortable with both. I've seen pinyin with no tonal references at all, such as street signs in in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. In China pinyin is pretty rare on the street, so its a crutch until you learn characters anyway. When I moved to Beijing my pinyin was useless out of the classroom and so I began to just learn to recognize characters with pinyin as an assist.My IME on my mobile phone lets me type pinyin without tones and select from a list of characters. I cant even imagine what it would do if I tried to use a diacritical. I haven't tried because it gets in the way of communicating with my Chinese friends.If the Chinese themselves don't consistently use 'real pinyin' how can we say what 'real pinyin' is? According to wikipedia it is both but I think anyone who has tried to use their keyboard to type diacritical characters quickly reverts to the more intuitive wo3. It's faster and everyone knows what you mean. which. is. the. point.Ultimately we'll be using characters instead of pinyin, right? So I'd vote for more emphasis on characters, writing stroke order and less on which pinyin is real.
This is kind of funny conversation. I've seen pinyin displayed with diacriticals, and with the numbers only in textbooks. If you don't like one you can find books or teachers that use the other... I don't think its such a big deal since its a tool for pronunciation only and you should know and be comfortable with both. I've seen pinyin with no tonal references at all, such as street signs in in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. In China pinyin is pretty rare on the street, so its a crutch until you learn characters anyway. When I moved to Beijing my pinyin was useless out of the classroom and so I began to just learn to recognize characters with pinyin as an assist.My IME on my mobile phone lets me type pinyin without tones and select from a list of characters. I cant even imagine what it would do if I tried to use a diacritical. I haven't tried because it gets in the way of communicating with my Chinese friends.If the Chinese themselves don't consistently use 'real pinyin' how can we say what 'real pinyin' is? According to wikipedia it is both but I think anyone who has tried to use their keyboard to type diacritical characters quickly reverts to the more intuitive wo3. It's faster and everyone knows what you mean. which. is. the. point.Ultimately we'll be using characters instead of pinyin, right? So I'd vote for more emphasis on characters, writing stroke order and less on which pinyin is real.
maozhou 3 months ago
This is kind of funny conversation. I've seen pinyin displayed with diacriticals, and with the numbers only in textbooks. If you don't like one you can find books or teachers that use the other... I don't think its such a big deal since its a tool for pronunciation only and you should know and be comfortable with both. I've seen pinyin with no tonal references at all, such as street signs in in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. In China pinyin is pretty rare on the street, so its a crutch until you learn characters anyway. When I moved to Beijing my pinyin was useless out of the classroom and so I began to just learn to recognize characters with pinyin as an assist.My IME on my mobile phone lets me type pinyin without tones and select from a list of characters. I cant even imagine what it would do if I tried to use a diacritical. I haven't tried because it gets in the way of communicating with my Chinese friends.If the Chinese themselves don't consistently use 'real pinyin' how can we say what 'real pinyin' is? According to wikipedia it is both but I think anyone who has tried to use their keyboard to type diacritical characters quickly reverts to the more intuitive wo3. It's faster and everyone knows what you mean. which. is. the. point.Ultimately we'll be using characters instead of pinyin, right? So I'd vote for more emphasis on characters, writing stroke order and less on which pinyin is real.
This is kind of funny conversation. I've seen pinyin displayed with diacriticals, and with the numbers only in textbooks. If you don't like one you can find books or teachers that use the other... I don't think its such a big deal since its a tool for pronunciation only and you should know and be comfortable with both. I've seen pinyin with no tonal references at all, such as street signs in in Beijing, Shanghai, etc. In China pinyin is pretty rare on the street, so its a crutch until you learn characters anyway. When I moved to Beijing my pinyin was useless out of the classroom and so I began to just learn to recognize characters with pinyin as an assist.My IME on my mobile phone lets me type pinyin without tones and select from a list of characters. I cant even imagine what it would do if I tried to use a diacritical. I haven't tried because it gets in the way of communicating with my Chinese friends.If the Chinese themselves don't consistently use 'real pinyin' how can we say what 'real pinyin' is? According to wikipedia it is both but I think anyone who has tried to use their keyboard to type diacritical characters quickly reverts to the more intuitive wo3. It's faster and everyone knows what you mean. which. is. the. point.Ultimately we'll be using characters instead of pinyin, right? So I'd vote for more emphasis on characters, writing stroke order and less on which pinyin is real.
mlawrence00 3 weeks, 1 day ago
I too prefer the tone 'marks'. This is what I do.
I create my own vocab list in Excel, then copy all the characters from there into my 'pinyin' dictionary, which then converts the characters into pinyin with strokes. This can all be pasted back into excel and uploaded to Memrise.
http://www.ideographer.com/...
It seems to only be available for Mac though.
NB. The translations into pinyin have occassionally thrown up some errors. For example, a noticible one is: 儿 being transcribed as rén. In these cases I manually edit them. But they are far and few between. Also, I know 儿 = er, so for me, ITO reading it is no drama.
I too prefer the tone 'marks'. This is what I do.
I create my own vocab list in Excel, then copy all the characters from there into my 'pinyin' dictionary, which then converts the characters into pinyin with strokes. This can all be pasted back into excel and uploaded to Memrise.
http://www.ideographer.com/...
It seems to only be available for Mac though.
NB. The translations into pinyin have occassionally thrown up some errors. For example, a noticible one is: 儿 being transcribed as rén. In these cases I manually edit them. But they are far and few between. Also, I know 儿 = er, so for me, ITO reading it is no drama.
benwhately 3 weeks ago
@mlawrence, I am very sorry about this, but since the Mandarin topic on Memrise is a wiki, and since the wiki has conventions for how the items should be added, you will find that the items that you add with the diacritic lines will just be merged into the main items in the Mandarin wiki, and revert to the numbers; I know that this is annoying, but we do need to have consistency across the wiki so that all the mems, sample sentences, audio recordings etc that people are adding can be shared by everyone. You can read the conventions of the wiki here - www.memrise.com/topic/manda...
There are several reasons that we use the numbers rather than the tone lines, but the most important one is for easy of user experience: in order to type the tones correctly using the diacritic lines, it requires a bit of extra learning, and then it needs you to type the number of the tone - 1,2,3,4 or 5 after the syllable. Which is fiddly and annoying and leads to a surprising number of people just giving up (we tested it). Since you are going to have to type the tone numbers anyway in order to input the diacritic lines, it seems fair to just use the numbers as the main way that the tones are written.
We may later be able to give you an option over how the words are displayed, because it is not impossible to convert the pinyin with tones into pinyin with diacritic lines, but this isn't I'm afraid, going to happen very soon.
Apologies for the inconvenience,
Best wishes
Ben
@mlawrence, I am very sorry about this, but since the Mandarin topic on Memrise is a wiki, and since the wiki has conventions for how the items should be added, you will find that the items that you add with the diacritic lines will just be merged into the main items in the Mandarin wiki, and revert to the numbers; I know that this is annoying, but we do need to have consistency across the wiki so that all the mems, sample sentences, audio recordings etc that people are adding can be shared by everyone. You can read the conventions of the wiki here - www.memrise.com/topic/manda...
There are several reasons that we use the numbers rather than the tone lines, but the most important one is for easy of user experience: in order to type the tones correctly using the diacritic lines, it requires a bit of extra learning, and then it needs you to type the number of the tone - 1,2,3,4 or 5 after the syllable. Which is fiddly and annoying and leads to a surprising number of people just giving up (we tested it). Since you are going to have to type the tone numbers anyway in order to input the diacritic lines, it seems fair to just use the numbers as the main way that the tones are written.
We may later be able to give you an option over how the words are displayed, because it is not impossible to convert the pinyin with tones into pinyin with diacritic lines, but this isn't I'm afraid, going to happen very soon.
Apologies for the inconvenience,
Best wishes
Ben
mlawrence00 3 weeks ago
I only use the pinyin as the "pronunciation" section of my flashcards. Thus, I never need to 'type' it into the memrise box during a learning session. It simply pops up to remind me (top right hand corner).
As far as I can tell, to date, I have had no issues with this. I mean, I create my own decks based on my vocabulary with my own 'definitions'. I never draw vocab from the already shared database.
I only use the pinyin as the "pronunciation" section of my flashcards. Thus, I never need to 'type' it into the memrise box during a learning session. It simply pops up to remind me (top right hand corner).
As far as I can tell, to date, I have had no issues with this. I mean, I create my own decks based on my vocabulary with my own 'definitions'. I never draw vocab from the already shared database.
benwhately 3 weeks ago
Ah, I see - from a quick check it looks like the course that you have created is outside the main wiki, which is exactly the right thing to do if you wish to add your own words and definitions and not to use the information int he wikis. In fact, in the main wiki courses you are tested on both the meaning and the pronunciation of characters by default, although you can opt out of pronunciation if you wish.
So what you are doing is absolutely right if you are keen to just use Memrise as a flashcard program, but it does mean that you are missing out on all the mems, audio, sample sentences and grammar tips and new test types (eg from audio etc) that are being added to the main wiki.
Best wishes
Ben
Ah, I see - from a quick check it looks like the course that you have created is outside the main wiki, which is exactly the right thing to do if you wish to add your own words and definitions and not to use the information int he wikis. In fact, in the main wiki courses you are tested on both the meaning and the pronunciation of characters by default, although you can opt out of pronunciation if you wish.
So what you are doing is absolutely right if you are keen to just use Memrise as a flashcard program, but it does mean that you are missing out on all the mems, audio, sample sentences and grammar tips and new test types (eg from audio etc) that are being added to the main wiki.
Best wishes
Ben
lps8r4 2 weeks, 1 day ago
The number of the tone is leading to me just giving up on this site.
The numbers come AFTER the word, so it's almost like you have to start at the end to see what tone should be used, figure out what the number means, then go back to the beginning of the word, then read it.
The number of the tone is leading to me just giving up on this site.
The numbers come AFTER the word, so it's almost like you have to start at the end to see what tone should be used, figure out what the number means, then go back to the beginning of the word, then read it.
Rav 2 weeks ago
I thnik it has been prvoen taht you cna undrestnad wrods witouht raeding them phnoeticlaly. Learn to do it with pinyin. In fact, a week ago I couldn't make head or tail of numbered pinyin but now it's just second nature to me.
I thnik it has been prvoen taht you cna undrestnad wrods witouht raeding them phnoeticlaly. Learn to do it with pinyin. In fact, a week ago I couldn't make head or tail of numbered pinyin but now it's just second nature to me.
jenniferhunter 1 week, 6 days ago
Off topic @ Rav - cute - how long did it take to make that first sentence?
I started learning with the tone markers, but now the tone number system seems like second nature. I've also looked at texts using different romanization schemes for mandarin chinese. I really prefer the tone numbering system now. If you keep at it, it will become second nature.
Off topic @ Rav - cute - how long did it take to make that first sentence?
I started learning with the tone markers, but now the tone number system seems like second nature. I've also looked at texts using different romanization schemes for mandarin chinese. I really prefer the tone numbering system now. If you keep at it, it will become second nature.
mariepi70 1 week, 5 days ago
I personally like the numbers because it's so easy to type in.. I don't think I'd ever seen numbered pinyin before finding memrise, but I converted naturally. Perhaps for some people the pinyin + tone mark is like a "visual image" for the word (instead of the character), its identity, the way spelling is for English, and so they are confused when it changes?
Just trying to understand the problem!
I personally like the numbers because it's so easy to type in.. I don't think I'd ever seen numbered pinyin before finding memrise, but I converted naturally. Perhaps for some people the pinyin + tone mark is like a "visual image" for the word (instead of the character), its identity, the way spelling is for English, and so they are confused when it changes?
Just trying to understand the problem!
phylae 1 week, 5 days ago
Typing the tone marks is actually the same as typing the numbers. In all of the input systems I have seen the tone mark is entered by entering its number. The only difference is that you don't need to type a 5 for the neutral tone. The _hard_ part is that you need to figure out how to switch keyboard layouts. For beginners that can be very annoying. It is probably not too bad for most advanced users because they will need to learn how to switch keyboard layouts in order to type characters anyway.
Also, I think that not requiring the 5 for the neutral tone is a feature that has been requested in these forums a few times already. I'm hoping it won't be too hard to implement and we'll get that feature soon.
Typing the tone marks is actually the same as typing the numbers. In all of the input systems I have seen the tone mark is entered by entering its number. The only difference is that you don't need to type a 5 for the neutral tone. The _hard_ part is that you need to figure out how to switch keyboard layouts. For beginners that can be very annoying. It is probably not too bad for most advanced users because they will need to learn how to switch keyboard layouts in order to type characters anyway.
Also, I think that not requiring the 5 for the neutral tone is a feature that has been requested in these forums a few times already. I'm hoping it won't be too hard to implement and we'll get that feature soon.
benwhately 1 week, 5 days ago
@phylae, sorry, I must have missed the previous mentions of getting rid of the "5" - or I have just forgotten, which is very possible. I will see if it would be possible to do this easily, but I suspect that it would actually be quite fiddly to do it well. It would also make it harder to judge things like "nearly right" (which doesn't work very well for the pinyin at the moment, but losing the number would make that even harder).
I will definitely check it out though, thank you for bringing it up,
Best wishes
Ben
@phylae, sorry, I must have missed the previous mentions of getting rid of the "5" - or I have just forgotten, which is very possible. I will see if it would be possible to do this easily, but I suspect that it would actually be quite fiddly to do it well. It would also make it harder to judge things like "nearly right" (which doesn't work very well for the pinyin at the moment, but losing the number would make that even harder).
I will definitely check it out though, thank you for bringing it up,
Best wishes
Ben
benwhately 1 week, 5 days ago
@phylae, sorry, I must have missed the previous mentions of getting rid of the "5" - or I have just forgotten, which is very possible. I will see if it would be possible to do this easily, but I suspect that it would actually be quite fiddly to do it well. It would also make it harder to judge things like "nearly right" (which doesn't work very well for the pinyin at the moment, but losing the number would make that even harder).
I will definitely check it out though, thank you for bringing it up,
Best wishes
Ben
@phylae, sorry, I must have missed the previous mentions of getting rid of the "5" - or I have just forgotten, which is very possible. I will see if it would be possible to do this easily, but I suspect that it would actually be quite fiddly to do it well. It would also make it harder to judge things like "nearly right" (which doesn't work very well for the pinyin at the moment, but losing the number would make that even harder).
I will definitely check it out though, thank you for bringing it up,
Best wishes
Ben
guaka 4 days, 1 hour ago
I would probably prefer to see pinyin with diacritical marks. But when entering pinyin it would be nice if Memrise accepted both so that it's possible to just use numbers when not in the right keyboard mode.
I wrote some lines of Python that convert e.g. from "wo3 men5 qu4 xiang1 gang3" to "wǒ men qù xīang gǎng". It's up at https://github.com/guaka/nu...
I would probably prefer to see pinyin with diacritical marks. But when entering pinyin it would be nice if Memrise accepted both so that it's possible to just use numbers when not in the right keyboard mode.
I wrote some lines of Python that convert e.g. from "wo3 men5 qu4 xiang1 gang3" to "wǒ men qù xīang gǎng". It's up at https://github.com/guaka/nu...
I'm stuck at 248/249 in the Survival course and can't plant any more seeds. Also, I noticed that a word (water) disappeared from my garden at some point. How do I bring it back?
3 comments
Latest 5 days, 13 hours ago
droope 6 days, 6 hours ago
Wow this sounds like a bug! Perhaps you should contact a staff member, they surely can help you
Wow this sounds like a bug! Perhaps you should contact a staff member, they surely can help you
jenniferhunter 5 days, 14 hours ago
did you ignore any words? That might be the source of the difference.
did you ignore any words? That might be the source of the difference.
Coincoin 5 days, 13 hours ago
That might very well be possible. As a matter of fact, I remember messing around in the top menu at about the same time this happened, I probably clicked ignore. What do I have to do to unignore it?
That might very well be possible. As a matter of fact, I remember messing around in the top menu at about the same time this happened, I probably clicked ignore. What do I have to do to unignore it?
Hi!
I'd like to write in mandarin, I don't know much, sorry about this, what is the language I should tell my windows to use, and what should I ｔｙｐｅ?
ＴＨａｎｋｓ!
Ｓｏｒｒｙ ｆｏｒ ｔｈｉｓ ｎｅｗｂｉｅ ｑｕｅｓｔｉｏｎ
I'd like to write in mandarin, I don't know much, sorry about this, what is the language I should tell my windows to use, and what should I ｔｙｐｅ?
ＴＨａｎｋｓ!
Ｓｏｒｒｙ ｆｏｒ ｔｈｉｓ ｎｅｗｂｉｅ ｑｕｅｓｔｉｏｎ
1 comment
Latest 5 days, 20 hours ago
Azimuth 5 days, 20 hours ago
Do you mean for memrise, or for something else? For memrise you don't need to type the characters, just the pinyin (letters followed by a number that signifies the tone): http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
If you want to write the characters, you would need to set up an input method on Windows so that when you type the pinyin (e.g. 'women zai zheli') the computer prints that as 我们在这里. I don't use windows so don't really know how to do this, but this page might help:
http://www.pinyinjoe.com/vi...
Do you mean for memrise, or for something else? For memrise you don't need to type the characters, just the pinyin (letters followed by a number that signifies the tone): http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
If you want to write the characters, you would need to set up an input method on Windows so that when you type the pinyin (e.g. 'women zai zheli') the computer prints that as 我们在这里. I don't use windows so don't really know how to do this, but this page might help:
http://www.pinyinjoe.com/vi...
Yes, that is my question. I know that it seems contrary to the purpose of memrise, but I don't actually WANT to read the mnemonics unless I specifically need help with a certain character. The definition of the character really is enough for me.
This really is something that puts me off the site - much as I admire the concept of crowd sourcing, I don't actually want to be exposed by default to the random streams of thought of everyone that passes by the site. When I learn a new character, I choose my OWN way to remember it, it is just an routine that I go through that forces me to think about it for a while, I can remember them much easier if I can frame them with my personal thoughts, and it makes it my own fault if I forget it five minutes later. Much as I like everything else about memrise, this one niggling issue keeps turning me away from it!
This really is something that puts me off the site - much as I admire the concept of crowd sourcing, I don't actually want to be exposed by default to the random streams of thought of everyone that passes by the site. When I learn a new character, I choose my OWN way to remember it, it is just an routine that I go through that forces me to think about it for a while, I can remember them much easier if I can frame them with my personal thoughts, and it makes it my own fault if I forget it five minutes later. Much as I like everything else about memrise, this one niggling issue keeps turning me away from it!
3 comments
Latest 6 days, 10 hours ago
chilvence 1 month, 4 weeks ago
Actually, while I am moaning, you can disable the pinyin tests for some reason, but not the english tests? What's the logic in that?
Actually, while I am moaning, you can disable the pinyin tests for some reason, but not the english tests? What's the logic in that?
r7ll 1 month, 3 weeks ago
I guess there could be an option in your user settings that lets you hide mems by default, but in the mean time have you tried...not looking at them? I for one would prefer to see more user content by default.
I guess there could be an option in your user settings that lets you hide mems by default, but in the mean time have you tried...not looking at them? I for one would prefer to see more user content by default.
eldorel 6 days, 10 hours ago
I actually have the same issue, and not looking them isn't as effective as I would like.
They still show up in my line of sight, and they're moving, so ignoring them is difficult.
I actually have the same issue, and not looking them isn't as effective as I would like.
They still show up in my line of sight, and they're moving, so ignoring them is difficult.
2 comments
Latest 1 week ago
benwhately 1 week, 2 days ago
I'm really sorry that this isn't introduced more clearly at the moment - we are working on that right now. In the meantime, you can find a bit of an introduction both in the Mandarin FAQ - www.memrise.com/faq/mandarin - and in the "tone game" - www.memrise.com/tonegame.
Please let me know if I can do anything else to help,
Best wishes
Ben
I'm really sorry that this isn't introduced more clearly at the moment - we are working on that right now. In the meantime, you can find a bit of an introduction both in the Mandarin FAQ - www.memrise.com/faq/mandarin - and in the "tone game" - www.memrise.com/tonegame.
Please let me know if I can do anything else to help,
Best wishes
Ben
joulieboolie 1 week ago
This link was posted on the forum and I found it very helpful: http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
This link was posted on the forum and I found it very helpful: http://www.wku.edu/~shizhen...
why is 漂 (piao1 - to float) the 1st tone, whereas 漂 in 漂亮 (piao4 liang5 - pretty) uses the 4th tone?
1 comment
Latest 1 week, 2 days ago
Azimuth 1 week, 2 days ago
Good question! All I know is that
- 漂 is pronounced with 1st tone when used in a variety of words to mean 'to float' (or to drift, roam etc);
- with 4th tone in the specific instance of 漂亮 piàoliang (most common use of the character by far)
- with 3rd tone in the specific instance of 漂白 piăobái 'bleach'.
So, probably best to remember the single character as 1st tone, and then learn the 2 'exceptions' separately.
Good question! All I know is that
- 漂 is pronounced with 1st tone when used in a variety of words to mean 'to float' (or to drift, roam etc);
- with 4th tone in the specific instance of 漂亮 piàoliang (most common use of the character by far)
- with 3rd tone in the specific instance of 漂白 piăobái 'bleach'.
So, probably best to remember the single character as 1st tone, and then learn the 2 'exceptions' separately.
I've noticed something odd about the dictionary. As an example: try searching for:
不 bu4 - not
It doesn't matter whether you search by only the english, pinyin, character, or english+pinyin, or english+character. You get a list of all the dependents of 不, but not 不 itself!
I've also come across words in the past where searching by alternative english meaning does not yield the character you're looking for, but using both english and pinyin does. For example, if you search for 木 using "wood", you find all its dependents, but 木 itself only appears if you add "mu4" to the serach.
This is also a problem when it comes to adding parent characters for words. So for the above example, I was unable to add 不 as a parent for 坏.
Other words which aren't appearing in the dictionary search:
朿
卂
(I know these were added quite recently, so that might explain why, but 不 must have been one of the first batch of words uploaded ever, I don't know why that wouldn't show up)
Pretty sure there are more, and I suspect this issue may not be limited to only mandarin.
Also: unticking/ticking the "Moderated items only" box doesn't seem to do yield any further results either.
不 bu4 - not
It doesn't matter whether you search by only the english, pinyin, character, or english+pinyin, or english+character. You get a list of all the dependents of 不, but not 不 itself!
I've also come across words in the past where searching by alternative english meaning does not yield the character you're looking for, but using both english and pinyin does. For example, if you search for 木 using "wood", you find all its dependents, but 木 itself only appears if you add "mu4" to the serach.
This is also a problem when it comes to adding parent characters for words. So for the above example, I was unable to add 不 as a parent for 坏.
Other words which aren't appearing in the dictionary search:
朿
卂
(I know these were added quite recently, so that might explain why, but 不 must have been one of the first batch of words uploaded ever, I don't know why that wouldn't show up)
Pretty sure there are more, and I suspect this issue may not be limited to only mandarin.
Also: unticking/ticking the "Moderated items only" box doesn't seem to do yield any further results either.
10 comments
Latest 1 week, 2 days ago
r7ll 1 month ago
Ok so after further experimenting, you can find 不 by searching for its english alternative "Negation particle".
Maybe this is a remnant from its previous primary definition "negative" ?
Ok so after further experimenting, you can find 不 by searching for its english alternative "Negation particle".
Maybe this is a remnant from its previous primary definition "negative" ?
Azimuth 1 month ago
I'd noticed this occasionally, although hadn't noticed that searching for alternatives works - it's the same for 水 shuĭ 'water', which you have to find using 'beverage' or 'liquid'.
Are you sure 朿 and 卂 are in the dictionary? I occasionally (very rarely) use components in my mems that aren't included in the dictionary...hope this isn't causing confusion.
I'd noticed this occasionally, although hadn't noticed that searching for alternatives works - it's the same for 水 shuĭ 'water', which you have to find using 'beverage' or 'liquid'.
Are you sure 朿 and 卂 are in the dictionary? I occasionally (very rarely) use components in my mems that aren't included in the dictionary...hope this isn't causing confusion.
benwhately 1 month ago
Thank you for this - I had noticed that there were some oddities, but these details will definitely help to pin down what needs improving.
Thanks
Ben
Thank you for this - I had noticed that there were some oddities, but these details will definitely help to pin down what needs improving.
Thanks
Ben
r7ll 1 month ago
@Azimuth Yeah Ben added
朿 http://www.memrise.com/item...
and
卂 http://www.memrise.com/item...
a few weeks ago.
I don't think using components that aren't listed in the dictionary causes any confusion. I find it much easier to learn a word through knowing the components anyway. Of course, if would be ideal if you could add those components to the dictionary! On a related note: should these newly found components be added to the "Mandarin Foundation" course?
@Azimuth Yeah Ben added
朿 http://www.memrise.com/item...
and
卂 http://www.memrise.com/item...
a few weeks ago.
I don't think using components that aren't listed in the dictionary causes any confusion. I find it much easier to learn a word through knowing the components anyway. Of course, if would be ideal if you could add those components to the dictionary! On a related note: should these newly found components be added to the "Mandarin Foundation" course?
r7ll 3 weeks, 6 days ago
Haha, I know, right? It would be great to be able to add a word to a wordlist directly from its page.
Haha, I know, right? It would be great to be able to add a word to a wordlist directly from its page.
mara1974 1 week, 3 days ago
hi to all in this discussion.
i was making my first mandarin list of words and came to similar problems. and ideas.
if i try to add the words one(1) or two(2) in the dictionary, in the below-list there are only results that are made from combination characters and not the simple horizontal line signs that i already learned in some of great courses i found here (thanx for them).
i tried to do the opposite - to paste horizontal line signs into mandarin window, and then they show. why is that they dont show if i type english first?
my concern is that if i think of some words that i want to know and want to add them from dictionary, i would probably add some complicated versions and not the nice simple ones which have mems from other users already.
this leads me to the second question: if i want to add words that already exist, with mems from other users, do they come up automatically? or if not, how do you paste/copy mems from other courses into your course?
sorry if i am asking some obvious things.
thanx in advance.
hi to all in this discussion.
i was making my first mandarin list of words and came to similar problems. and ideas.
if i try to add the words one(1) or two(2) in the dictionary, in the below-list there are only results that are made from combination characters and not the simple horizontal line signs that i already learned in some of great courses i found here (thanx for them).
i tried to do the opposite - to paste horizontal line signs into mandarin window, and then they show. why is that they dont show if i type english first?
my concern is that if i think of some words that i want to know and want to add them from dictionary, i would probably add some complicated versions and not the nice simple ones which have mems from other users already.
this leads me to the second question: if i want to add words that already exist, with mems from other users, do they come up automatically? or if not, how do you paste/copy mems from other courses into your course?
sorry if i am asking some obvious things.
thanx in advance.
benwhately 1 week, 3 days ago
@mara1974, adding chinese words from the English definitions is a very tricky task, because there are so many ways of translating a single english word into Chinese; often no word is a perfect match, but a whole load of different Chinese words might sometimes be used to give the sense of the English word. It is a difficult job to work out how to arrange the dictionary search to highlight the most useful ones (but the dictionary search *will* be made much better than it currently is).
The most reliable way to make a list and find the words that you want to learn is by pasting the chinese characters into the add words "as a list" box. If you just paste your whole list of vocab into that then it will pick out all the matches in the wiki. Then if there are any duplicate matches (I am merging all the duplicates at the moment, but it is taking a little while to totally remove them all) your can choose which one you want.
Because wordlists in Memrise are just made by pulling words out of the wiki, if another user has added a mem to a word, then you will see that mem in any wordlist that the word appears in (as long as there are no duplicates; that is why we need to remove them).
Does that help? Please let me know if you have any other questions at all,
Best wishes
Ben
@mara1974, adding chinese words from the English definitions is a very tricky task, because there are so many ways of translating a single english word into Chinese; often no word is a perfect match, but a whole load of different Chinese words might sometimes be used to give the sense of the English word. It is a difficult job to work out how to arrange the dictionary search to highlight the most useful ones (but the dictionary search *will* be made much better than it currently is).
The most reliable way to make a list and find the words that you want to learn is by pasting the chinese characters into the add words "as a list" box. If you just paste your whole list of vocab into that then it will pick out all the matches in the wiki. Then if there are any duplicate matches (I am merging all the duplicates at the moment, but it is taking a little while to totally remove them all) your can choose which one you want.
Because wordlists in Memrise are just made by pulling words out of the wiki, if another user has added a mem to a word, then you will see that mem in any wordlist that the word appears in (as long as there are no duplicates; that is why we need to remove them).
Does that help? Please let me know if you have any other questions at all,
Best wishes
Ben
It would be very useful to be able to type in some pinyin, or even Hanzi, to a search box on the home page to assist with learning. I appreciate that this might add load to the servers, but would it be possible?
3 comments
Latest 1 week, 3 days ago
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
I think that a search box would indeed be useful in many ways - what exactly would you like to be searching for though? Are you thinking of a dictionary function? Or something else?
Best wishes
Ben
I think that a search box would indeed be useful in many ways - what exactly would you like to be searching for though? Are you thinking of a dictionary function? Or something else?
Best wishes
Ben
euphro 1 week, 4 days ago
Thanks very much for your prompt response. What I find myself searching for most of all are examples where I'm creating a "confusible" mem. I'll often know the English or the pinyin but I won't have the hanzi character and it would be very useful to be able to search, rather than bringing up lists of words and using the search function of the browser, which takes much longer. A dictionary function would also be very interesting, which would, of course, be something along the lines of the urban dictionary given that it is a collective effort. Thanks again for a great and very useful idea and website.
Thanks very much for your prompt response. What I find myself searching for most of all are examples where I'm creating a "confusible" mem. I'll often know the English or the pinyin but I won't have the hanzi character and it would be very useful to be able to search, rather than bringing up lists of words and using the search function of the browser, which takes much longer. A dictionary function would also be very interesting, which would, of course, be something along the lines of the urban dictionary given that it is a collective effort. Thanks again for a great and very useful idea and website.
benwhately 1 week, 3 days ago
Thank you for that clarification - so when you say that you want this search "on the home page," where precisely do you mean? If you go to the "Mandarin" page then there is a dictionary tab where you can search the whole wiki. Would you like a search box like that but available on every page?
I see your point that there would be a similarity with the urban dictionary, but actually since we do everything we can to avoid duplicate creation (and we are going to do more) and we merge any duplicates that do appear in the dictionary, it does end up being a bit different. The reason that we don't want any duplicates in the wiki is that the main collaborative effort is not focused on the words and definitions, but on the samples and mnemonics and audio recordings. Those are the things that make words more memorable, and that is what our wikis are there to do. Does that make sense?
Thanks
Ben
Thank you for that clarification - so when you say that you want this search "on the home page," where precisely do you mean? If you go to the "Mandarin" page then there is a dictionary tab where you can search the whole wiki. Would you like a search box like that but available on every page?
I see your point that there would be a similarity with the urban dictionary, but actually since we do everything we can to avoid duplicate creation (and we are going to do more) and we merge any duplicates that do appear in the dictionary, it does end up being a bit different. The reason that we don't want any duplicates in the wiki is that the main collaborative effort is not focused on the words and definitions, but on the samples and mnemonics and audio recordings. Those are the things that make words more memorable, and that is what our wikis are there to do. Does that make sense?
Thanks
Ben
Not sure if this related to my machine or not when I'm using my windows machine and Firefox at work I get the pinyin questions on ones in my garden and also when harvesting.
But using my linux machine and Firefox it never happens and I haven't got the skip pinyin on any ideas ?
But using my linux machine and Firefox it never happens and I haven't got the skip pinyin on any ideas ?
7 comments
Latest 1 week, 3 days ago
benwhately 2 weeks, 4 days ago
Thank you very much for this bug report, I will look into it for you at once. Could you possibly give me a few more details on the exact version of Linux that you are using? That will help to track the problem down,
Thanks and best wishes
Ben
Thank you very much for this bug report, I will look into it for you at once. Could you possibly give me a few more details on the exact version of Linux that you are using? That will help to track the problem down,
Thanks and best wishes
Ben
wolfe 1 week, 6 days ago
I'm not sure if I'm in the same boat. I've never seen a pinyin question (only been here since Saturday though). I use google chrome (latest stable version) on Ubuntu 12.04 and Mac OSX Lion. I thought I was missing selecting an option (which is why I was looking in the forum right now in the first place), but from the look of this question I should have seen a pinyin question at some point in the 350 or so characters I've gone through.
Not sure though, is this right?
Brian
I'm not sure if I'm in the same boat. I've never seen a pinyin question (only been here since Saturday though). I use google chrome (latest stable version) on Ubuntu 12.04 and Mac OSX Lion. I thought I was missing selecting an option (which is why I was looking in the forum right now in the first place), but from the look of this question I should have seen a pinyin question at some point in the 350 or so characters I've gone through.
Not sure though, is this right?
Brian
cdstg 1 week, 5 days ago
yes I m using firefox and ubuntu 1
I notice now I m getting the pinyin but not very often as I have about 200 words in the garden and it happens on about 3 words
so maybe a setting
yes I m using firefox and ubuntu 1
I notice now I m getting the pinyin but not very often as I have about 200 words in the garden and it happens on about 3 words
so maybe a setting
Genthree 1 week, 4 days ago
I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and use both Firefox and Chrome. I would actually say that the majority of mine are pinyin. I am a beginner, though, and only have about 300 characters from HSK I word set.
I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and use both Firefox and Chrome. I would actually say that the majority of mine are pinyin. I am a beginner, though, and only have about 300 characters from HSK I word set.
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
Thank you all for these bug reports - I have checked and you are all set up to be tested on pinyin, so there is definitely something odd going on. I will get this checked out for you right away,
Best wishes
Ben
Thank you all for these bug reports - I have checked and you are all set up to be tested on pinyin, so there is definitely something odd going on. I will get this checked out for you right away,
Best wishes
Ben
wolfe 1 week, 3 days ago
Well, I started to get lots of pinyin today while I was watering. I don't know if it was fixed or just started working, but thanks for looking into it Ben.
Well, I started to get lots of pinyin today while I was watering. I don't know if it was fixed or just started working, but thanks for looking into it Ben.
benwhately 1 week, 3 days ago
That is good to hear! Please do let me know at once if you run into any issues in future,
Best wishes
Ben
That is good to hear! Please do let me know at once if you run into any issues in future,
Best wishes
Ben
Every time I've tried watering my Survial Manadarin or First 500 Word gardens, screen loads and I see the colored dots moving but the the first word never appears. I've tried watering at different times during the day (morning, afternoon and night) for the past three days but am not having any success. Needless to say, I have a LOT of wilting plants right now.
This is only happening in these two gardens. All my other gardens seem to be working without any problems. Is this happening to anyone else?
Any way someone can help?
Thanks in advance,
Dawn
This is only happening in these two gardens. All my other gardens seem to be working without any problems. Is this happening to anyone else?
Any way someone can help?
Thanks in advance,
Dawn
18 comments
Latest 1 week, 4 days ago
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 5 days ago
Sometimes this happens to me, but sometimes if I refresh, it loads okay. Other times, if I wait long enough, it loads. How long have you tried waiting? I think it at most is loading 50 words. Sometimes that takes a while. I'm not sure, but maybe sometimes it gets stuck of you have connection problems.
Maybe that happens to me as well, so maybe for you it's more consistently happening. I am not sure, I hope someone else can give you answers if waiting longer doesn't get it to work for you.
Sometimes this happens to me, but sometimes if I refresh, it loads okay. Other times, if I wait long enough, it loads. How long have you tried waiting? I think it at most is loading 50 words. Sometimes that takes a while. I'm not sure, but maybe sometimes it gets stuck of you have connection problems.
Maybe that happens to me as well, so maybe for you it's more consistently happening. I am not sure, I hope someone else can give you answers if waiting longer doesn't get it to work for you.
benwhately 3 weeks, 4 days ago
@deardawn, I am really sorry to hear that you are having this issue. COuld I get a couple of details to help track down the cause?
- which browser are you using?
- which button are you pressing on which page to get to the watering session? ie is it from the dashboard, or from and email link, or from a shortcut that you have set up?
I will look into this and get it sorted for you ASAP.
Best wishes
Ben
@deardawn, I am really sorry to hear that you are having this issue. COuld I get a couple of details to help track down the cause?
- which browser are you using?
- which button are you pressing on which page to get to the watering session? ie is it from the dashboard, or from and email link, or from a shortcut that you have set up?
I will look into this and get it sorted for you ASAP.
Best wishes
Ben
deardawn 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Hi Ben!
I was finally able to get on yesterday and watered my plants. Today I was able to water with mixed results, even when I gave it time as thathorse suggested.
To answer your questions:
I'm using Firefox.
I generally try watering from my 'gardens' page or after planting my seeds I'll try watering again from the waypoint page. Once in a while I'll try from my Home page.
Sometimes after I've finished planting or growing my seeds, the page will not get me to the waypoint page. That is usually a sign that I'll have problems watering my plants.
Hope that helps!
Dawn
Hi Ben!
I was finally able to get on yesterday and watered my plants. Today I was able to water with mixed results, even when I gave it time as thathorse suggested.
To answer your questions:
I'm using Firefox.
I generally try watering from my 'gardens' page or after planting my seeds I'll try watering again from the waypoint page. Once in a while I'll try from my Home page.
Sometimes after I've finished planting or growing my seeds, the page will not get me to the waypoint page. That is usually a sign that I'll have problems watering my plants.
Hope that helps!
Dawn
benwhately 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Thank you dawn, that does help, and I am very sorry for the annoyance. Once final question - which operating system are you using?
Best wishes
Ben
Thank you dawn, that does help, and I am very sorry for the annoyance. Once final question - which operating system are you using?
Best wishes
Ben
makmak 3 weeks, 2 days ago
I have it alle the time... I am about to give up on the site, I've only managed to see 10 words or so so far, and i refreshed about a million times. I'm using a Mac and Firefox. The iphone app is also hardly working. Its so sad, cause i am really excited to use this properly!
I have it alle the time... I am about to give up on the site, I've only managed to see 10 words or so so far, and i refreshed about a million times. I'm using a Mac and Firefox. The iphone app is also hardly working. Its so sad, cause i am really excited to use this properly!
benwhately 3 weeks, 2 days ago
@makmak, I am very sorry indeed to hear that it has been that bad for you. Could I possibly ask what browser and operating system you are using? that will help us to track the issue down and get it fixed really soon. I am very sorry once again for the incredible annoyance that this must cause,
Best wishes
Ben
@makmak, I am very sorry indeed to hear that it has been that bad for you. Could I possibly ask what browser and operating system you are using? that will help us to track the issue down and get it fixed really soon. I am very sorry once again for the incredible annoyance that this must cause,
Best wishes
Ben
pdg 1 week, 5 days ago
hi,
I'm having a similar problem. I've got 3 words on Mandarin Comprehensive and 2 on Introductory Mandarin that I keep watering and they just stay wilted. Any ideas? I've tried to go in both on the dashboard and where it takes me after watering, help.
hi,
I'm having a similar problem. I've got 3 words on Mandarin Comprehensive and 2 on Introductory Mandarin that I keep watering and they just stay wilted. Any ideas? I've tried to go in both on the dashboard and where it takes me after watering, help.
jenniferhunter 1 week, 5 days ago
@pdg, I think we have similar problems. I've got two words in HSK3 that still requiring watering. Do you get the same test every time you try to water it? I think I've tried answering it correctly (english), answering with pinyin (just in case the test was mislabeled), and answering incorrectly (english). BTW - using Windows/Chrome. My other courses in Spanish don't seem to be misbehaving.
@pdg, I think we have similar problems. I've got two words in HSK3 that still requiring watering. Do you get the same test every time you try to water it? I think I've tried answering it correctly (english), answering with pinyin (just in case the test was mislabeled), and answering incorrectly (english). BTW - using Windows/Chrome. My other courses in Spanish don't seem to be misbehaving.
jenniferhunter 1 week, 5 days ago
update - there are three words that are not being properly watered - they all belong to "10 History". Could someone check and see what's going on? The three words are: 灯 deng1, 姐姐 jie3 jie5, and 鱼 yu2. Please note - I have successfully completed five watering sessions for two of these words but they system does not appear to register the watering.
update - there are three words that are not being properly watered - they all belong to "10 History". Could someone check and see what's going on? The three words are: 灯 deng1, 姐姐 jie3 jie5, and 鱼 yu2. Please note - I have successfully completed five watering sessions for two of these words but they system does not appear to register the watering.
benwhately 1 week, 5 days ago
@jenniferhunter, could you possibly leave a comment on the items themselves saying that they are constantly wilting and I will check them right away - I want to be sure I don't get the wrong versions of the items in the database.
Apologies for the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
@jenniferhunter, could you possibly leave a comment on the items themselves saying that they are constantly wilting and I will check them right away - I want to be sure I don't get the wrong versions of the items in the database.
Apologies for the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
pdg 1 week, 4 days ago
Jennifer,
Yes I get the same items tested over and over. I'm on Firefox 12.0 and OSX 10.5.8
Paul Goodrich
Jennifer,
Yes I get the same items tested over and over. I'm on Firefox 12.0 and OSX 10.5.8
Paul Goodrich
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
@pdg, could you possibly leave comment on the items themselves, then I can see which ones this is happening on and I will get it fixed at once.
Thanks!
Ben
@pdg, could you possibly leave comment on the items themselves, then I can see which ones this is happening on and I will get it fixed at once.
Thanks!
Ben
pdg 1 week, 4 days ago
Ben,
I did on the feedback button. Is there somewhere else I should do it. How can I put them on the items themselves? Thanks.
Paul Goodrich
Ben,
I did on the feedback button. Is there somewhere else I should do it. How can I put them on the items themselves? Thanks.
Paul Goodrich
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
Hi Paul, if you click on the word from the "wordlist" view, then you will be taken to the "word details page" from where you can comment on the item on the "comments" tab. Or else you can click on "start discussion" from the menu at the top of the page when you see the word during a learning session.
Thanks very much and apologies for this annoying issue,
best wishes
Ben
Hi Paul, if you click on the word from the "wordlist" view, then you will be taken to the "word details page" from where you can comment on the item on the "comments" tab. Or else you can click on "start discussion" from the menu at the top of the page when you see the word during a learning session.
Thanks very much and apologies for this annoying issue,
best wishes
Ben
carl_a 1 week, 4 days ago
I might have as many as a dozen words in this state--across several lists. Is this bug specific to the Mandarin section?
I might have as many as a dozen words in this state--across several lists. Is this bug specific to the Mandarin section?
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
These should all now be fixed - there was one list that had somehow been moved across to another topic, changing the topic of all the words in that list. I am now trying to track down how that can have happened so that we can stop it from happening again.
Apologies for the annoyance and please let me know if you are still having trouble with this,
best wishes
Ben
These should all now be fixed - there was one list that had somehow been moved across to another topic, changing the topic of all the words in that list. I am now trying to track down how that can have happened so that we can stop it from happening again.
Apologies for the annoyance and please let me know if you are still having trouble with this,
best wishes
Ben
I'm using Google Chrome. If I try to start a discussion, any text that I enter goes into the "copy typing" box, even if the "meaning review > discuss item" drop-down is in front of it. If I want to start a discussion I have to open a new tab, search for the item in Memrise and then open a discussion.
1 comment
Latest 1 week, 4 days ago
benwhately 1 week, 4 days ago
Thank you very much for this bug report, we are checking it out right now.
Apologies for the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
Thank you very much for this bug report, we are checking it out right now.
Apologies for the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
Learning new words isn't that hard - it's learning new characters that's hard. With this in mind, it'd be a great feature if memrise was able to look at the characters you already knew, and suggest words that you might like to learn, which are made up of those characters. For days when you're feeling like you can't cram much new new stuff into your brain, perhaps.
Mind you, for this to be useful, it would probably have to refer to character-frequency lists to prevent obscure and irrelevant suggestions. Still, I'm pretty sure there are freely-available frequency lists out there that don't require licensing etc.
Perhaps even more useful would be a similar facility to suggest words that feature characters you've already learnt - but for which you don't know any 2-character combinations. e.g. I might know 参 but not any words featuring it. (This shouldn't happen much with really well-curated lists, but it does occur from time to time). Or just a facility like 'suggest words with character X'. This would be particularly helpful for problem words, as each combination gives you another chance to learn, and another associative hook to hang it on.
I'm really just thinking aloud here - none of this is top-priority stuff, but might be useful to put in the 'future ideas' file.
Mind you, for this to be useful, it would probably have to refer to character-frequency lists to prevent obscure and irrelevant suggestions. Still, I'm pretty sure there are freely-available frequency lists out there that don't require licensing etc.
Perhaps even more useful would be a similar facility to suggest words that feature characters you've already learnt - but for which you don't know any 2-character combinations. e.g. I might know 参 but not any words featuring it. (This shouldn't happen much with really well-curated lists, but it does occur from time to time). Or just a facility like 'suggest words with character X'. This would be particularly helpful for problem words, as each combination gives you another chance to learn, and another associative hook to hang it on.
I'm really just thinking aloud here - none of this is top-priority stuff, but might be useful to put in the 'future ideas' file.
5 comments
Latest 1 week, 5 days ago
benwhately 2 weeks, 2 days ago
This is a very cool idea. I have just put up a frequency list of the first 1000 words in Chinese by frequency in the spoken language (film subtitles). I will put up more from those lists. I don't think that we are going to be able to put the development time into making this feature in the next few months though, and it occurs to me that this could be exactly the kind of thing that it might be possible for someone else to develop using the API, using the data in the word frequency lists. Perhaps you could suggest this in the developer forum and see if you can tempt someone into giving it a go!
Best wishes
Ben
This is a very cool idea. I have just put up a frequency list of the first 1000 words in Chinese by frequency in the spoken language (film subtitles). I will put up more from those lists. I don't think that we are going to be able to put the development time into making this feature in the next few months though, and it occurs to me that this could be exactly the kind of thing that it might be possible for someone else to develop using the API, using the data in the word frequency lists. Perhaps you could suggest this in the developer forum and see if you can tempt someone into giving it a go!
Best wishes
Ben
Azimuth 2 weeks, 1 day ago
The subtitles course is a great idea, I've started learning it.
Good suggestion re the API, looking forward to seeing what people can do with that.
The subtitles course is a great idea, I've started learning it.
Good suggestion re the API, looking forward to seeing what people can do with that.
benwhately 2 weeks ago
Glad you are enjoying it - it was in fact alt.trigger's idea, so send your thanks his way as well!
Best wishes
Ben
Glad you are enjoying it - it was in fact alt.trigger's idea, so send your thanks his way as well!
Best wishes
Ben
jenniferhunter 1 week, 5 days ago
@Ben - I hope I'm not imposing, but if you could get the CC (closed captioning) of a movie and put those characters into a wordlist, it would make a good course. For example, a list of all the words/phrases spoken in "Aladdin". (Children's movies because they tend to use simpler, less complex language, obvious actions, and user familiarity with the subject.) That way, people can hear the words as they are spoken. I do this with spanish - it's much more fun than watching telenovelas or sponge bob.
@Ben - I hope I'm not imposing, but if you could get the CC (closed captioning) of a movie and put those characters into a wordlist, it would make a good course. For example, a list of all the words/phrases spoken in "Aladdin". (Children's movies because they tend to use simpler, less complex language, obvious actions, and user familiarity with the subject.) That way, people can hear the words as they are spoken. I do this with spanish - it's much more fun than watching telenovelas or sponge bob.
benwhately 1 week, 5 days ago
@jenniferhunter - I would love for someone to do this! But our aim is to build the tools that will help other people to actually add these kind of courses: myself I might be able to add a few of these, but ti would take a huge amount of time and stop me from working on other features to improve the learning experience. The idea of the wiki infrastructure that we have been working on is that it will make it ever easier for lots of people to collaborate on building just this kind of set. That way the Memrise community can create much better (and many more) materials than would be possible for one of us to create on our own. Doest that make sense?
If you can find a link to the video in Chinese (or spanish), then we can start getting people to work on this together! I would love to help to develop the tools that would make that easier for you.
Best wishes
Ben
@jenniferhunter - I would love for someone to do this! But our aim is to build the tools that will help other people to actually add these kind of courses: myself I might be able to add a few of these, but ti would take a huge amount of time and stop me from working on other features to improve the learning experience. The idea of the wiki infrastructure that we have been working on is that it will make it ever easier for lots of people to collaborate on building just this kind of set. That way the Memrise community can create much better (and many more) materials than would be possible for one of us to create on our own. Doest that make sense?
If you can find a link to the video in Chinese (or spanish), then we can start getting people to work on this together! I would love to help to develop the tools that would make that easier for you.
Best wishes
Ben
Things i wish were different:
1. the way pinyin is learned
Currently you learn the character, then after a few times right, pinyin starts to show up in the 'garden', then you steadily learn pinyin.
I wish that instead of that you learned the meaning, and after you got it right a few times a separate garden appeared where the pinyin learning took place, so that you could monitor both how you were doing with meaning and with pinyin separately. Having it all in one long term memory garden makes it hard to keep track of how you're doing, and i find it pretty demotivating when it gets to the pinyin part, where the meaning part is great, because you always see progress through short term, to long term, then growth in the garden.
2. Text entry on pinyin
if you write zun1 and the answer is xun1 it says 'almost' but actually its not even close. If 'almost' could be disabled for pinyin (which i suspect is actually much easier said than done) that would be preferable.
I don't know if either of these are possible, but i feel they (the first one especially) would make learning more enjoyable, and keep the feeling of progress with pinyin and meaning, rather than just meaning.
Thoughts?
1. the way pinyin is learned
Currently you learn the character, then after a few times right, pinyin starts to show up in the 'garden', then you steadily learn pinyin.
I wish that instead of that you learned the meaning, and after you got it right a few times a separate garden appeared where the pinyin learning took place, so that you could monitor both how you were doing with meaning and with pinyin separately. Having it all in one long term memory garden makes it hard to keep track of how you're doing, and i find it pretty demotivating when it gets to the pinyin part, where the meaning part is great, because you always see progress through short term, to long term, then growth in the garden.
2. Text entry on pinyin
if you write zun1 and the answer is xun1 it says 'almost' but actually its not even close. If 'almost' could be disabled for pinyin (which i suspect is actually much easier said than done) that would be preferable.
I don't know if either of these are possible, but i feel they (the first one especially) would make learning more enjoyable, and keep the feeling of progress with pinyin and meaning, rather than just meaning.
Thoughts?
0 comments
It would be great to start adding the classifier for each noun. You can present the classifier subtly without making it the focus. Also, I wish that the emphasis on recall would be given to the chinese pronounciation with the english word receiving less emphasis so that I can start thinking in chinese instead of english. This site is great for building vocabulary in a tangible way with eustress. The linguist Paul Nation writes about the importance of building vocabulary starting with concrete nouns without too much of a challenge. The next step is pedagological readers ( simple reading )
4 comments
Latest 1 week, 6 days ago
stoney 2 weeks, 1 day ago
An example of different classifiers for different nouns is
一本书 yi4 ben1 shu1 ( one book )
一份报纸 yi2 fen4 bao4 zhi3 ( one newspaper )
You do not need to overwhelm people by emphasizing the classifier, but you can provide it to the side so that people do not build a large vocabulary of characters without knowing the classifier. The lack of being able to associate classifiers with nouns would not impact reading or listening as much as it would impact the speaking and writing.
An example of different classifiers for different nouns is
一本书 yi4 ben1 shu1 ( one book )
一份报纸 yi2 fen4 bao4 zhi3 ( one newspaper )
You do not need to overwhelm people by emphasizing the classifier, but you can provide it to the side so that people do not build a large vocabulary of characters without knowing the classifier. The lack of being able to associate classifiers with nouns would not impact reading or listening as much as it would impact the speaking and writing.
stoney 2 weeks, 1 day ago
I also wish that the chinese pronounciation would have slightly more emphasis than the english word. It definitely helps to know what the english word is do eliminate ambiguity, but I would like to emphasize the chinese pronounciation and pinyin ( aproximation ) more so that my recall in chinese is faster than in english ( long term goal ). I speak spanish well, ( very close to english ) and I am able to speak without hesitation and understand more because I think in spanish. Not in english. So, I was hoping that the path to the target language would begin to emphasize recall of the target language more than english. It is important to reduce ambiguity and not provide too much of a challenge in order to commit new vocabulary to memory, but it is eventually important to recall the character in chinese first.
I also wish that the chinese pronounciation would have slightly more emphasis than the english word. It definitely helps to know what the english word is do eliminate ambiguity, but I would like to emphasize the chinese pronounciation and pinyin ( aproximation ) more so that my recall in chinese is faster than in english ( long term goal ). I speak spanish well, ( very close to english ) and I am able to speak without hesitation and understand more because I think in spanish. Not in english. So, I was hoping that the path to the target language would begin to emphasize recall of the target language more than english. It is important to reduce ambiguity and not provide too much of a challenge in order to commit new vocabulary to memory, but it is eventually important to recall the character in chinese first.
Azimuth 2 weeks, 1 day ago
You might be interested in Measure Word Mania, a mandarin list that teaches some classifiers by means of short phrases: http://www.memrise.com/set/...
You make a good point: I hope that in the future, there will be a place in wiki entries (word pages) for classifiers/measure words, and a way to optionally see these when being tested on nouns. Maybe as part of 'extra info' or similar.
As for emphasising chinese - does this already happen to some extent? I have an idea that memrise tests you first on english, then chinese, and if you keep getting the word correct you'll be tested on the chinese recognition and pronunciation rather than the english? I might be completely wrong though...
You might be interested in Measure Word Mania, a mandarin list that teaches some classifiers by means of short phrases: http://www.memrise.com/set/...
You make a good point: I hope that in the future, there will be a place in wiki entries (word pages) for classifiers/measure words, and a way to optionally see these when being tested on nouns. Maybe as part of 'extra info' or similar.
As for emphasising chinese - does this already happen to some extent? I have an idea that memrise tests you first on english, then chinese, and if you keep getting the word correct you'll be tested on the chinese recognition and pronunciation rather than the english? I might be completely wrong though...
jenniferhunter 1 week, 6 days ago
I like the idea - especially with mandarin because measure words are such an intrinsic part of the language that you would sound weird if you used the measure word for bottles and you were actually talking about people.
I like the idea - especially with mandarin because measure words are such an intrinsic part of the language that you would sound weird if you used the measure word for bottles and you were actually talking about people.
I created a mem for http://www.memrise.com/item... - now how can I edit it?
0 comments
Hello. I'm new here.
I'm really not understanding what means the translation to english sentence "squished to the side" that appears in some character examples.
I'm really not understanding what means the translation to english sentence "squished to the side" that appears in some character examples.
2 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 1 day ago
benwhately 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Good questions! We area actually just about to add in a tool tip to explain this, but in the meantime: there are certain characters that, when they appear as parts of more complex characters are simplified a bit so as to fit into the space more easily. We call these versions the "squished" versions, just to try to be as descriptive as possible. But you can also just answer with the name of the full, un-squished character and be marked correct.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions at all,
Best wishes
Ben
Good questions! We area actually just about to add in a tool tip to explain this, but in the meantime: there are certain characters that, when they appear as parts of more complex characters are simplified a bit so as to fit into the space more easily. We call these versions the "squished" versions, just to try to be as descriptive as possible. But you can also just answer with the name of the full, un-squished character and be marked correct.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions at all,
Best wishes
Ben
Hey!
Great site... Only just joined.
Am interested to know are the survival chinese + HSK words Traditional or Simplified chinese?
Many thanks!
Great site... Only just joined.
Am interested to know are the survival chinese + HSK words Traditional or Simplified chinese?
Many thanks!
7 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 1 day ago
benwhately 3 weeks, 4 days ago
All the lists in the main "mandarin" topic are simplified characters - there is a separate topic that you can find by going to "topics" -> Chinese -> Traditional Mandarin that has the traditional characters.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions or suggestions,
Best wishes
Ben
All the lists in the main "mandarin" topic are simplified characters - there is a separate topic that you can find by going to "topics" -> Chinese -> Traditional Mandarin that has the traditional characters.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions or suggestions,
Best wishes
Ben
Vick 3 weeks, 4 days ago
I have found an application that will convert the simplified characters to traditional. Works very well! Called New Tong Wen Tang. Now everyone can use the simplified courses to study traditional characters.
I have found an application that will convert the simplified characters to traditional. Works very well! Called New Tong Wen Tang. Now everyone can use the simplified courses to study traditional characters.
Vick 3 weeks, 4 days ago
This application places a button next to the wrench settings button on your browser and with one click you can go between simplified and traditional and back. Learning both is now an option!
This application places a button next to the wrench settings button on your browser and with one click you can go between simplified and traditional and back. Learning both is now an option!
chrisxjohnson 3 weeks, 1 day ago
@vick
Thanks for the heads up - new tong wen tang is ridiculously awesome!!! Just added it to Chrome.
@vick
Thanks for the heads up - new tong wen tang is ridiculously awesome!!! Just added it to Chrome.
stoney 2 weeks, 1 day ago
For those of you who use an Android based cell phone, I would highly recommend the "Hanping Chinese Pro" dictionary application ( also pinyin is displayed with tone marks and an audio clip is available as well ). You can easily change the settings through the menu button so that simplified characters with [traditional characters] are displayed or traditional characters with the simplified characters between []s. The characters in parentheses will match the color of the characters that you need to replace ( many simplified characters are the same as the traditional characters). Even when you are in mainland China there will be traditional characters used on product packaging. Also, sometimes people will insert/write a traditional character.
For those of you who use an Android based cell phone, I would highly recommend the "Hanping Chinese Pro" dictionary application ( also pinyin is displayed with tone marks and an audio clip is available as well ). You can easily change the settings through the menu button so that simplified characters with [traditional characters] are displayed or traditional characters with the simplified characters between []s. The characters in parentheses will match the color of the characters that you need to replace ( many simplified characters are the same as the traditional characters). Even when you are in mainland China there will be traditional characters used on product packaging. Also, sometimes people will insert/write a traditional character.
stoney 2 weeks, 1 day ago
For the Ipad or the iphone, people are probably familiar with the "Pleco" dictionary application and the "KTdict+ C-E" dictionary application. Sometimes I like the KTdict application better, but the Pleco dictionary uses color coding and []s to show the simplified and traditional characters which is a better interface. The KTdict application displays the word with traditional characters below the simplified characters. You need to know that the traditional characters are below, it is not obvious to new users.
For the Ipad or the iphone, people are probably familiar with the "Pleco" dictionary application and the "KTdict+ C-E" dictionary application. Sometimes I like the KTdict application better, but the Pleco dictionary uses color coding and []s to show the simplified and traditional characters which is a better interface. The KTdict application displays the word with traditional characters below the simplified characters. You need to know that the traditional characters are below, it is not obvious to new users.
I've across a frequency list (without copyright) in the academic literature for word frequency, as opposed to character frequency, for over 80,000 words.
I want to make a course of the first 5,000 or so and have it test the meaning from english to pinyin, to focus on spoken language, but also show the hanzi, as without the hanzi it would be confusing and harder to remember. Is there a way to do this?
I want to make a course of the first 5,000 or so and have it test the meaning from english to pinyin, to focus on spoken language, but also show the hanzi, as without the hanzi it would be confusing and harder to remember. Is there a way to do this?
7 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 2 days ago
benwhately 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I would love to help with this - I have to run to a meeting now, but could I give you a hand with this in a few hours time? It is a brilliant idea and something that I have been wanting to get started on for a while - there is a topic specially for this, but it is currently almost empty.
I'll be in touch soon!
Best wishes
Ben
I would love to help with this - I have to run to a meeting now, but could I give you a hand with this in a few hours time? It is a brilliant idea and something that I have been wanting to get started on for a while - there is a topic specially for this, but it is currently almost empty.
I'll be in touch soon!
Best wishes
Ben
alt.trigger 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Awesome. Tonight's not great for me, but I'll be on tomorrow a bit after 10am Beijing time until mid-afternoon.
Awesome. Tonight's not great for me, but I'll be on tomorrow a bit after 10am Beijing time until mid-afternoon.
alt.trigger 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Alright Ben, I'm here now. I'll be on for a few hours, let me know when you're ready.
Alright Ben, I'm here now. I'll be on for a few hours, let me know when you're ready.
alt.trigger 2 weeks, 2 days ago
Alright Ben, I'm here now. I'll be on for a few hours, let me know when you're ready.
Alright Ben, I'm here now. I'll be on for a few hours, let me know when you're ready.
benwhately 2 weeks, 2 days ago
shall we talk on skype? my skype name is benwhately. Or we could exchange comments here, but it might be a bit slower!
EIther way, chat soon,
Ben
shall we talk on skype? my skype name is benwhately. Or we could exchange comments here, but it might be a bit slower!
EIther way, chat soon,
Ben
I am tempted to say I would like to get marked TOTALLY wrong if I get the tone wrong. It seems way too easy for someone building a decent character vocabulary to guess the pinyin of the word but get the tone wrong. I wanna be forced to get the tone right. I worry there are words I'm getting the tone wrong about the same frequency I guess the right one, and it's not really improving. Thoughts?
4 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 2 days ago
r7ll 3 weeks, 5 days ago
I can see where you're coming from. I got a word totally wrong today - answered "bang1" for "wang4". Got the word completely mixed up with another - yet I was marked "almost" correct.
I don't think I should have got away with that :P
I can see where you're coming from. I got a word totally wrong today - answered "bang1" for "wang4". Got the word completely mixed up with another - yet I was marked "almost" correct.
I don't think I should have got away with that :P
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 5 days ago
That's another thing, a LOT of words, maybe too many, have the pinyin as english answers and vice versa. There are a lot of ways to coast through, think you're getting by, and I don't have the ability to check and see if things are actually slipping through the cracks.
In theory those words I never get quite right (but always get partially right) are going to pop up for me to water at a scientifically determined frequency. Someone should kind of critically examine this at times though and see if it's really happenning. Maybe they are.
**I think there's a lot of words I'm just 50/50 guessing the tone every time, not sure if I'm even improving at it! I think that's my main point.**
Likewise, there should be someone checking to see if some alternate answers are being inputted massively more than any others, basically some way to monitor for potential red flags and review it. We don't want a lot of mis-learning or false learning to go on.
Setting up some ways to systemically raise these flags and review them may be necessary because the amt. of data being added/edited is just massive.
Honestly sometimes I get full points on a word and what I should do is stop, hit edit, figure out what happened because I really have no confidence with the word. But this happens so often and I'm so eager to learn that I don't always take the time. Some clever change to the interface could let me tag these quickly and review 'em later. Quick tags, to tag and group things for later tasks, while learning.
That's another thing, a LOT of words, maybe too many, have the pinyin as english answers and vice versa. There are a lot of ways to coast through, think you're getting by, and I don't have the ability to check and see if things are actually slipping through the cracks.
In theory those words I never get quite right (but always get partially right) are going to pop up for me to water at a scientifically determined frequency. Someone should kind of critically examine this at times though and see if it's really happenning. Maybe they are.
**I think there's a lot of words I'm just 50/50 guessing the tone every time, not sure if I'm even improving at it! I think that's my main point.**
Likewise, there should be someone checking to see if some alternate answers are being inputted massively more than any others, basically some way to monitor for potential red flags and review it. We don't want a lot of mis-learning or false learning to go on.
Setting up some ways to systemically raise these flags and review them may be necessary because the amt. of data being added/edited is just massive.
Honestly sometimes I get full points on a word and what I should do is stop, hit edit, figure out what happened because I really have no confidence with the word. But this happens so often and I'm so eager to learn that I don't always take the time. Some clever change to the interface could let me tag these quickly and review 'em later. Quick tags, to tag and group things for later tasks, while learning.
TL-TheUltimate 2 weeks, 2 days ago
I reckon that "almost correct" should be removed entirely from pinyin tests. Considering how close different sounds are to one another in Chinese, "almost correct" usually means "completely wrong".
In particular, tones have become a weakness for me. I've had quite a few Chinese people say something to me like "zuo4 ju3? What's zuo4 ju3? Oh, you mean zuo4 ju2!" I also occasionally confuse zh and ch, q and j, which are also marked as "almost".
I feel like the learning algorithm should be made harsher for pinyin - reflecting how difficult it is to remember, comparatively - until I get it consistently perfect over a few weeks. Because of the nature of Chinese, anything less than perfect recall obfuscates the meaning of my utterances.
Finally, the pinyin multiple choice tests could do to be a lot trickier. It's not exactly hard to guess the correct pinyin when only one or two of the answers have the same number of syllables as the question.
I reckon that "almost correct" should be removed entirely from pinyin tests. Considering how close different sounds are to one another in Chinese, "almost correct" usually means "completely wrong".
In particular, tones have become a weakness for me. I've had quite a few Chinese people say something to me like "zuo4 ju3? What's zuo4 ju3? Oh, you mean zuo4 ju2!" I also occasionally confuse zh and ch, q and j, which are also marked as "almost".
I feel like the learning algorithm should be made harsher for pinyin - reflecting how difficult it is to remember, comparatively - until I get it consistently perfect over a few weeks. Because of the nature of Chinese, anything less than perfect recall obfuscates the meaning of my utterances.
Finally, the pinyin multiple choice tests could do to be a lot trickier. It's not exactly hard to guess the correct pinyin when only one or two of the answers have the same number of syllables as the question.
Ben, could you add the radical 咅 pòu 'to spit out' to the dictionary? (Some dictionaries have pŏu, so we could accept either as correct; tone isn't that important as it's a radical only). It's used in words like 部 bù, 陪 péi etc.
3 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 4 days ago
Azimuth 2 weeks, 4 days ago
Thanks Ben. I can't find it in the dictionary; could you give me the url?
Thanks Ben. I can't find it in the dictionary; could you give me the url?
benwhately 2 weeks, 4 days ago
That should now be in the dictionary, thanks for pointing that out! here is the link http://www.memrise.com/item...
Thanks
Ben
That should now be in the dictionary, thanks for pointing that out! here is the link http://www.memrise.com/item...
Thanks
Ben
Are there any existing grammar exercises on this site? I couldn't find anything.
If not, does anyone know of a decent website for practicing chinese grammar?
If not, does anyone know of a decent website for practicing chinese grammar?
7 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 4 days ago
dmheikin 1 month ago
I miss grammar info as well as syntax. Maybe presenting a phrase or string of characters and then ask test takers to choice the best syntax.
I miss grammar info as well as syntax. Maybe presenting a phrase or string of characters and then ask test takers to choice the best syntax.
ThatHorse 1 month ago
Grammar is supposedly best learned inductively. Approaching it in a technical way can give you some tools for self correction but you aren't really acquiring language by doing this.
In other words, using whole sentence flashcards where you imagine the situation and really say (or hear) the target language, ideally prompted by something other than the L1 like a photo, will be pretty good. A lot of people do things like this with their personal flash card decks.
Personally I found Pimsleur audio tapes to be a good start on absorbing a lot of grammar structures. Textbooks are filled with dialogues you can learn (and listen to) as well. Others like Rosetta stone, or hiring a cheap personal tutor or language exchange partner.
You really can't fully learn a language without speaking to someone or coming pretty close to doing so (something really similar to your brain).
Do vocab building as a separate, boosting activity to your language acquisition, because it can take a long time to get all those characters to make sense in your head. So chip away at it using great free tools like memrise, but don't forget that you need to get out there listening and speaking in real situations (and building to that!) to learn a language.
Grammar is supposedly best learned inductively. Approaching it in a technical way can give you some tools for self correction but you aren't really acquiring language by doing this.
In other words, using whole sentence flashcards where you imagine the situation and really say (or hear) the target language, ideally prompted by something other than the L1 like a photo, will be pretty good. A lot of people do things like this with their personal flash card decks.
Personally I found Pimsleur audio tapes to be a good start on absorbing a lot of grammar structures. Textbooks are filled with dialogues you can learn (and listen to) as well. Others like Rosetta stone, or hiring a cheap personal tutor or language exchange partner.
You really can't fully learn a language without speaking to someone or coming pretty close to doing so (something really similar to your brain).
Do vocab building as a separate, boosting activity to your language acquisition, because it can take a long time to get all those characters to make sense in your head. So chip away at it using great free tools like memrise, but don't forget that you need to get out there listening and speaking in real situations (and building to that!) to learn a language.
robr 2 weeks, 5 days ago
I was just wondering this myself. I'm putting a lot of time into this and am asking myself if it's practical to do so. Once I've memorized everything, then what? I'm normally TERRIBLE at learning languages, but memrise has been great for what it teaches. I've digested 50+ words since Friday and am feeling pretty good about that, but where do I go from here to actually learn to converse and read (and write for that matter).
I was just wondering this myself. I'm putting a lot of time into this and am asking myself if it's practical to do so. Once I've memorized everything, then what? I'm normally TERRIBLE at learning languages, but memrise has been great for what it teaches. I've digested 50+ words since Friday and am feeling pretty good about that, but where do I go from here to actually learn to converse and read (and write for that matter).
benwhately 2 weeks, 5 days ago
The way I would view Memrise at the moment is as a vocab tool: if you keep on Memrising away, you will be continually growing your vocab and will keep making progress and being enthused about the whole learning process, and ultimately growing your vocabulary and sticking with your studies are what will make you succeed in learning the language. But you will need to supplement Memrise with other tools in order to learn the language fully. The two things that I would recommend for Mandarin would be:
- Pimsleur for speaking and for basic grammar. I did this myself and I think that they do a lot well. It is (in my opinion) eye wateringly dull and tedious, but it is very effective. Longer term we plan to have wordsets based around videos and dialogs that would function very similarly to Pimsleur lessons, but just be a bit more exciting! Still, for the moment they are excellent.
- Albert Wolff's (http://laowaichinese.net/) book "Chinese 24/" http://www.amazon.com/gp/pr... is a great collection of advice and explanations on how to learn CHinese (except that he advises not learning to read characters - I like to think that that is because he didn't know how easy and enjoyable it is to learn characters on Memrise!). For me the best insight in there is that the process of learning should be about amassing questions about how to use words, how to say stuff etc, and then finding a native speaker to answer those questions (an "informer" he calls them). This is instead of using a teacher per-se. The difference is that with a teacher you kind of expect them to do the teaching. But with an informer the emphasis is on you to ask questions about how to use the language. And ultimately that is the best way to find out how to speak it.
Hope that helps; also over the coming months we will be introducing more test types and course types that will help to extend what we are teaching. But those should help in the meantime.
Best wishes
Ben
The way I would view Memrise at the moment is as a vocab tool: if you keep on Memrising away, you will be continually growing your vocab and will keep making progress and being enthused about the whole learning process, and ultimately growing your vocabulary and sticking with your studies are what will make you succeed in learning the language. But you will need to supplement Memrise with other tools in order to learn the language fully. The two things that I would recommend for Mandarin would be:
- Pimsleur for speaking and for basic grammar. I did this myself and I think that they do a lot well. It is (in my opinion) eye wateringly dull and tedious, but it is very effective. Longer term we plan to have wordsets based around videos and dialogs that would function very similarly to Pimsleur lessons, but just be a bit more exciting! Still, for the moment they are excellent.
- Albert Wolff's (http://laowaichinese.net/) book "Chinese 24/" http://www.amazon.com/gp/pr... is a great collection of advice and explanations on how to learn CHinese (except that he advises not learning to read characters - I like to think that that is because he didn't know how easy and enjoyable it is to learn characters on Memrise!). For me the best insight in there is that the process of learning should be about amassing questions about how to use words, how to say stuff etc, and then finding a native speaker to answer those questions (an "informer" he calls them). This is instead of using a teacher per-se. The difference is that with a teacher you kind of expect them to do the teaching. But with an informer the emphasis is on you to ask questions about how to use the language. And ultimately that is the best way to find out how to speak it.
Hope that helps; also over the coming months we will be introducing more test types and course types that will help to extend what we are teaching. But those should help in the meantime.
Best wishes
Ben
robr 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Thanks, much appreciated. This is a great tool, it would be phenominal if it could somehow fill in those other areas eventually. I can't struggle through boring, I've been working on my PMP exam now for 5 years. Talk about boring. They need a tool like this :). I quit when it gets boring. Memrise is fun to me which is what keeps me coming back.
Thanks, much appreciated. This is a great tool, it would be phenominal if it could somehow fill in those other areas eventually. I can't struggle through boring, I've been working on my PMP exam now for 5 years. Talk about boring. They need a tool like this :). I quit when it gets boring. Memrise is fun to me which is what keeps me coming back.
Azimuth 2 weeks, 4 days ago
Hadn't come across that book, looks interesting; it certainly has great reviews.
Hadn't come across that book, looks interesting; it certainly has great reviews.
My computer won't show the Mandarin characters. It may be missing something since instead of the characters it shows a box, a square for pretty much every character. I'm using a relatively old Dell Latitude D510 running Windows XP Professional. Is anyone aware of something I can download, or something I can do, so that I can see these characters and can start learning some Mandarin?
I look forward to your help.
Amaury
I look forward to your help.
Amaury
4 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 5 days ago
carl_a 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Disclaimer: I am a Mac user...and when I use Windows its always Windows 7. However, this might be what you need:
http://www.microsoft.com/re...
Disclaimer: I am a Mac user...and when I use Windows its always Windows 7. However, this might be what you need:
http://www.microsoft.com/re...
paddpetm 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Auryngold:
If you're still having problems, see this link: http://www.memrise.com/foru...
If the link doesn't work, just go to the Memrise's MAIN forums page (right now you're in the forms page for the Mandarin language, you want to go to the forums page that's accessible from your homepage when you sign-in to Memrise), scroll down and look for the thread entitled "Mandarin Characters on old computer." There I posted my same concern, someone provided me with a lead, and it was what eventually led to me solving my problem.
Auryngold:
If you're still having problems, see this link: http://www.memrise.com/foru...
If the link doesn't work, just go to the Memrise's MAIN forums page (right now you're in the forms page for the Mandarin language, you want to go to the forums page that's accessible from your homepage when you sign-in to Memrise), scroll down and look for the thread entitled "Mandarin Characters on old computer." There I posted my same concern, someone provided me with a lead, and it was what eventually led to me solving my problem.
Azimuth 2 weeks, 5 days ago
The thread that paddpetm's talking about is here:
http://www.memrise.com/thre...
The thread that paddpetm's talking about is here:
http://www.memrise.com/thre...
I have only been at this three days now and I know that Memrise seperates the pronunciation and reading test, but do I have to tell it to give me the pronunciation tests or does it do it when I am supposed to get it?
I know you can ask it to give you a pronunciation test, but I mean for the words that I have been learning with the reading test, do I have to ask it to do the pronunciation for all of them?
Thanks for your time reading this ^^
I know you can ask it to give you a pronunciation test, but I mean for the words that I have been learning with the reading test, do I have to ask it to do the pronunciation for all of them?
Thanks for your time reading this ^^
3 comments
Latest 2 weeks, 5 days ago
benwhately 2 weeks, 6 days ago
Thanks for getting in touch - Memrise will automatically test you on the pronunciation of every characters or word that you learn. The tests on pronunciation will start once you have tested correctly on the meaning of a character a few times in a row.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions,
Best wishes
Ben
Thanks for getting in touch - Memrise will automatically test you on the pronunciation of every characters or word that you learn. The tests on pronunciation will start once you have tested correctly on the meaning of a character a few times in a row.
I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions,
Best wishes
Ben
EmersoninKorea 2 weeks, 6 days ago
Oh! you write on here too!
In that case - I would like to give you my sincerest thanks for working through everything on this site concerning the Chinese vocabulary. I have only been at it for a few days reviewing words that I have unsuccessfully attempted to memorize before, and I love it. Absolutely amazing and already recommending it to my friends.
If I may ask one more - how do you suggest specifically going about using the program? Like, when learning new words, how should one go about it?
Not the number of new words or how many hours a day, but should a person immediately review all the new words until they are ready to be harvested? Should a person learn new words and only review the new ones once a day?
I guess I am asking how the program is meant to be used exactly.
Thanks so very much,
Emerson
Oh! you write on here too!
In that case - I would like to give you my sincerest thanks for working through everything on this site concerning the Chinese vocabulary. I have only been at it for a few days reviewing words that I have unsuccessfully attempted to memorize before, and I love it. Absolutely amazing and already recommending it to my friends.
If I may ask one more - how do you suggest specifically going about using the program? Like, when learning new words, how should one go about it?
Not the number of new words or how many hours a day, but should a person immediately review all the new words until they are ready to be harvested? Should a person learn new words and only review the new ones once a day?
I guess I am asking how the program is meant to be used exactly.
Thanks so very much,
Emerson
benwhately 2 weeks, 5 days ago
Thank you for that!
Yes, I would generally review the new words a few times until they are fully "sprouted", and then wait for the harvest. The ideal is to learn and review a little and often - if you harvest exactly when they come ready for harvest after 4 hours, that is about optimum.
Hope that helps!
Best wishes
Ben
Thank you for that!
Yes, I would generally review the new words a few times until they are fully "sprouted", and then wait for the harvest. The ideal is to learn and review a little and often - if you harvest exactly when they come ready for harvest after 4 hours, that is about optimum.
Hope that helps!
Best wishes
Ben
in the old course editor, if you shuffle and then add depdendencies after that, it wrongly shows that it just added a ton of words.
and where are these functions in the new editor? they're quite useful :D
and where are these functions in the new editor? they're quite useful :D
5 comments
Latest 3 weeks ago
benwhately 3 weeks, 1 day ago
I'm not totally sure that I see what you mean - don't you see the "add dependencies" button? I also am not totally sure I understand what you mean by shuffling and adding dependencies and then wrongly saying that it added words - was it wrong? It certainly shouldn't have been! I wasn't aware that that was an issue, so any more details would be very useful, thanks!
Best wishes
Ben
I'm not totally sure that I see what you mean - don't you see the "add dependencies" button? I also am not totally sure I understand what you mean by shuffling and adding dependencies and then wrongly saying that it added words - was it wrong? It certainly shouldn't have been! I wasn't aware that that was an issue, so any more details would be very useful, thanks!
Best wishes
Ben
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 1 day ago
Okay, here's what I did. (1) Old editor. Hit "shuffle." Deck is shuffled. Now "fix dependencies." You'll see that a ton of words were added. It will say so. But actually those words weren't added. They were already in the course. That's a bug.
(2) Where is "fix dependencies" and "shuffle" in the new editor? I didn't see them.
Okay, here's what I did. (1) Old editor. Hit "shuffle." Deck is shuffled. Now "fix dependencies." You'll see that a ton of words were added. It will say so. But actually those words weren't added. They were already in the course. That's a bug.
(2) Where is "fix dependencies" and "shuffle" in the new editor? I didn't see them.
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 1 day ago
I found the buttons. But when I try to create a list in the new tool it seems like only (most of the time) bad entries for the words come up, like ones that are in a foreign language, or there's no pinyin or dependencies. The real ones aren't coming up!
现在
今天
今晚
明天
晚上
当时
年
点
刚才
过去
最近
昨晚
早上
昨天
未来
下午
目前
月
后来
Try adding those.
I found the buttons. But when I try to create a list in the new tool it seems like only (most of the time) bad entries for the words come up, like ones that are in a foreign language, or there's no pinyin or dependencies. The real ones aren't coming up!
现在
今天
今晚
明天
晚上
当时
年
点
刚才
过去
最近
昨晚
早上
昨天
未来
下午
目前
月
后来
Try adding those.
benwhately 3 weeks ago
Hmm, that is very odd - I tried adding those and they all came up with the right entries right away. Could you check that you have it selected as "add Mandarin"? The default is to add English words, with is really annoying, but will be fixed soon.
Could you send me a link to the course that you are adding them to? Then I can check that there is nothing specific to that course.
Thanks, and apologies for this annoyance,
Ben
Hmm, that is very odd - I tried adding those and they all came up with the right entries right away. Could you check that you have it selected as "add Mandarin"? The default is to add English words, with is really annoying, but will be fixed soon.
Could you send me a link to the course that you are adding them to? Then I can check that there is nothing specific to that course.
Thanks, and apologies for this annoyance,
Ben
ThatHorse 3 weeks ago
It was a new course, but maybe the issue was it was adding them as English! that would of course dig up a bunch of low quality messed up entries that will die someday. Will let you know.
It was a new course, but maybe the issue was it was adding them as English! that would of course dig up a bunch of low quality messed up entries that will die someday. Will let you know.
As Mandarin is so different from English, there are often words that don't have any direct translation to English, such as 就, or 被.
Memrise does the best it can of giving a one-line translation for these types of word, but I think it would be handy to mark certain words as "undefinable", and then to
Memrise does the best it can of giving a one-line translation for these types of word, but I think it would be handy to mark certain words as "undefinable", and then to
5 comments
Latest 3 weeks, 2 days ago
TL-TheUltimate 4 weeks, 1 day ago
(Clicked on the button accidentally, so this a continuation of the above post)
... explain the grammar usage of the word in a mem. In my own reading of Chinese, it sometimes took me a while to figure out that I had to look up a word in a grammar book before I'd understand it - memrise gave no indication of where further reading was required for understanding.
(Clicked on the button accidentally, so this a continuation of the above post)
... explain the grammar usage of the word in a mem. In my own reading of Chinese, it sometimes took me a while to figure out that I had to look up a word in a grammar book before I'd understand it - memrise gave no indication of where further reading was required for understanding.
benwhately 3 weeks, 4 days ago
That is a very interesting idea - perhaps we could use the "special properties field for this. I would rather come up with a term slightly less despairing than "undefinable" though; it makes things feel a bit bleak. How about "grammatical particle", since these do tend to be words with a specifically grammatical role, don't they?
What do you think?
Best wishes
BEn
That is a very interesting idea - perhaps we could use the "special properties field for this. I would rather come up with a term slightly less despairing than "undefinable" though; it makes things feel a bit bleak. How about "grammatical particle", since these do tend to be words with a specifically grammatical role, don't they?
What do you think?
Best wishes
BEn
TL-TheUltimate 3 weeks, 4 days ago
That sounds good, but it depends on how obvious the "grammatical particle" marking is. My primary concern is that memrise would ideally make it clear when the translation does not impart full understanding of the word - to suggest clearly to the user that further reading should be done. "电脑" can be translated as "computer" with no further explanation as to usage, but "被" should be flagged with "go see a grammar book!", I think.
I agree in retrospect that marking words as "undefinable" is quite bleak!
Something else that would be nice would be to encourage the submission of sample usage mems for certain "tricky" words by marking them with a "bounty" - users could get additional points or rewards for helping to explain certain words in the mems. I've found sample sentences are really helpful in understanding the usage of grammatical particles.
Also, when grammatical particles are encountered as new words, sample sentences and explanations could be displayed by default alongside the meaning mnemonics.
Anyway, there are lots of other ways memrise can teach grammar that I'm sure are somewhere on the team's todo (like cloze deletion tests), so at some point I guess it won't be so important.
Thanks again for all the work you and the team do on this site!
That sounds good, but it depends on how obvious the "grammatical particle" marking is. My primary concern is that memrise would ideally make it clear when the translation does not impart full understanding of the word - to suggest clearly to the user that further reading should be done. "电脑" can be translated as "computer" with no further explanation as to usage, but "被" should be flagged with "go see a grammar book!", I think.
I agree in retrospect that marking words as "undefinable" is quite bleak!
Something else that would be nice would be to encourage the submission of sample usage mems for certain "tricky" words by marking them with a "bounty" - users could get additional points or rewards for helping to explain certain words in the mems. I've found sample sentences are really helpful in understanding the usage of grammatical particles.
Also, when grammatical particles are encountered as new words, sample sentences and explanations could be displayed by default alongside the meaning mnemonics.
Anyway, there are lots of other ways memrise can teach grammar that I'm sure are somewhere on the team's todo (like cloze deletion tests), so at some point I guess it won't be so important.
Thanks again for all the work you and the team do on this site!
benwhately 3 weeks, 4 days ago
We have got a sample sentence testing tool int he works at the moment. It should help hugely with this kind of thing - actually it will help hugely with a lot of words in Chinese (in all languages, but the concepts in Chinese are often so different that translation is particularly hard). eg to learn 交流 mean "communication" doesn't give you that much of a clue how to use it properly - ie when use that and when use 沟通? Sample sentences 1are going to be crucial to helping to give that understanding.
Coming alongside that is going to be a much better tool for creating sample sentences.
I will have a think about how we can implement something effective for flagging those words with a grammatical role in the short term though. Thanks for bringing it up!
Best wishes
Ben
We have got a sample sentence testing tool int he works at the moment. It should help hugely with this kind of thing - actually it will help hugely with a lot of words in Chinese (in all languages, but the concepts in Chinese are often so different that translation is particularly hard). eg to learn 交流 mean "communication" doesn't give you that much of a clue how to use it properly - ie when use that and when use 沟通? Sample sentences 1are going to be crucial to helping to give that understanding.
Coming alongside that is going to be a much better tool for creating sample sentences.
I will have a think about how we can implement something effective for flagging those words with a grammatical role in the short term though. Thanks for bringing it up!
Best wishes
Ben
Azimuth 3 weeks, 2 days ago
Just want to say, something like a 'bounty' and/or a list in the upcoming wiki system for highlighting 'mems wanted' - especially for things like samples/extra info mems for tricky words - sounds to me like an excellent idea. Could help to leverage the memrise community's energies in a useful way.
Just want to say, something like a 'bounty' and/or a list in the upcoming wiki system for highlighting 'mems wanted' - especially for things like samples/extra info mems for tricky words - sounds to me like an excellent idea. Could help to leverage the memrise community's energies in a useful way.
Suppose a character has a noun meaning, but is also used as a surname or a country name. For example, 苏 can mean "to revive", "surname Su", or be used in place names such as "Jiangsu" (江苏), "Soviet Union" (苏联) etc.
In this case which should we use as the primary definition? I think having a non-name meaning by default makes it easier to come up with mems both for the word itself and any dependents.
With this in mind, should the definition priority be as follows:
1) non-name meaning
2) surname meaning
3) place name meaning?
In this case which should we use as the primary definition? I think having a non-name meaning by default makes it easier to come up with mems both for the word itself and any dependents.
With this in mind, should the definition priority be as follows:
1) non-name meaning
2) surname meaning
3) place name meaning?
3 comments
Latest 3 weeks, 2 days ago
benwhately 3 weeks, 3 days ago
That sounds good to me - if others agree I will add that in to the Mandarin conventions - www.memrise.com/topic/manda...
Thanks!
Ben
That sounds good to me - if others agree I will add that in to the Mandarin conventions - www.memrise.com/topic/manda...
Thanks!
Ben
r7ll 3 weeks, 2 days ago
The conventions you've written look really good! How does one navigate to that page? (And could you perhaps make it easier to find, as I think every curator needs to read it)
Other conventions that have been discussed that perhaps need to be included:
1) words for which the primary meaning is a verb should be given in the infinitive form, with just the verb on its own as an English alternative.
2) surname meanings should take the form "surname Name", with "Name" as an accepted alternative (and possibly "a surname" too).
The conventions you've written look really good! How does one navigate to that page? (And could you perhaps make it easier to find, as I think every curator needs to read it)
Other conventions that have been discussed that perhaps need to be included:
1) words for which the primary meaning is a verb should be given in the infinitive form, with just the verb on its own as an English alternative.
2) surname meanings should take the form "surname Name", with "Name" as an accepted alternative (and possibly "a surname" too).
benwhately 3 weeks, 2 days ago
Good points, now added.
The conventions will be made much, much clearer in the new course creation tool, where you will be very much encouraged to read them before adding a new items to the wiki, or editing any items.
Thanks!
Ben
Good points, now added.
The conventions will be made much, much clearer in the new course creation tool, where you will be very much encouraged to read them before adding a new items to the wiki, or editing any items.
Thanks!
Ben
Is there a way to water more than 50 plants/words at a time?
Would be great to be able to go through.... 300 of them in one go :P
Would be great to be able to go through.... 300 of them in one go :P
11 comments
Latest 3 weeks, 3 days ago
Pokemaster 1 month ago
I don't think that is possible. I think that 50 is a suitable number, as 300 words would take an hour. I would have a headache by then!
I don't think that is possible. I think that 50 is a suitable number, as 300 words would take an hour. I would have a headache by then!
ThatHorse 1 month ago
I have found myself sitting through 100 easily, 150 not too tough. So anyways would like to attempt something more than 100, personally.
Side note about watering, it seems to give a ton of points compared to learning new words. Your thoughts?
I have found myself sitting through 100 easily, 150 not too tough. So anyways would like to attempt something more than 100, personally.
Side note about watering, it seems to give a ton of points compared to learning new words. Your thoughts?
ThatHorse 1 month ago
I have found myself sitting through 100 easily, 150 not too tough. So anyways would like to attempt something more than 100, personally.
Side note about watering, it seems to give a ton of points compared to learning new words. Your thoughts?
I have found myself sitting through 100 easily, 150 not too tough. So anyways would like to attempt something more than 100, personally.
Side note about watering, it seems to give a ton of points compared to learning new words. Your thoughts?
benwhately 1 month ago
At the moment 50 is the size of learning session - bigger sessions would take too long to load for some topics. But we are working to speed that up in lots of ways, so in the future we should be able to let you choose and to make them longer.
The number of points that you get for a test are roughly related to the amount of strengthening that test will have done for your memory (our estimates of that, of course). So planting a new word gets you lots of point. The next few testing in the greenhouse, while the word is still in your short-term memory have less strengthening effect, and then tests after longer and longer intervals actually have more effect on making your memory stronger... up to the point that you know the word really, really well. We are refining this process all the time, so you may see changes in the precise number of points in the future.
Thanks
Ben
At the moment 50 is the size of learning session - bigger sessions would take too long to load for some topics. But we are working to speed that up in lots of ways, so in the future we should be able to let you choose and to make them longer.
The number of points that you get for a test are roughly related to the amount of strengthening that test will have done for your memory (our estimates of that, of course). So planting a new word gets you lots of point. The next few testing in the greenhouse, while the word is still in your short-term memory have less strengthening effect, and then tests after longer and longer intervals actually have more effect on making your memory stronger... up to the point that you know the word really, really well. We are refining this process all the time, so you may see changes in the precise number of points in the future.
Thanks
Ben
ThatHorse 1 month ago
What about planting? Can I plant more than 5 at a time? I want to plant 30 seeds... :-)
What about planting? Can I plant more than 5 at a time? I want to plant 30 seeds... :-)
Pokemaster 1 month ago
I agree, it would be better if you could plant more than five, but it would take a long time for them to be harvested.
I agree, it would be better if you could plant more than five, but it would take a long time for them to be harvested.
r7ll 1 month ago
While the watering session is loading, instead of a boring plain loading screen, could we maybe be shown a "mem of the day" ? It could be a random word/fact with an accompanying mem, so that we have something to look at and think about, and are not just sat there twiddling our fingers whilst we wait.
I guess a curator could submit mems to a "pool" from which one is chosen at random from each watering session.
While the watering session is loading, instead of a boring plain loading screen, could we maybe be shown a "mem of the day" ? It could be a random word/fact with an accompanying mem, so that we have something to look at and think about, and are not just sat there twiddling our fingers whilst we wait.
I guess a curator could submit mems to a "pool" from which one is chosen at random from each watering session.
Pokemaster 4 weeks ago
It would have to be somehow the same language, though. That would be a pretty good idea, as I go bonkers looking at the little coloured dots going back and fourth for a couple of minutes.
It would have to be somehow the same language, though. That would be a pretty good idea, as I go bonkers looking at the little coloured dots going back and fourth for a couple of minutes.
benwhately 3 weeks, 6 days ago
@r7ll, great idea! I will see what we can come up with as an idea to use that time more effectively. ALthough reducing the loading time is probably the top priority...
Thanks
BEn
@r7ll, great idea! I will see what we can come up with as an idea to use that time more effectively. ALthough reducing the loading time is probably the top priority...
Thanks
BEn
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 6 days ago
Sometimes I am not sure whether it's really loading or just waiting for a timeout because the connection already got messed somehow. It just seems to be showing some animated gif, sometimes I hit reload and it seems to come up faster than if I had waited. So perhaps a more accurate representation of the loading, and detecting whether some connection has messed up, would help.
Sometimes I am not sure whether it's really loading or just waiting for a timeout because the connection already got messed somehow. It just seems to be showing some animated gif, sometimes I hit reload and it seems to come up faster than if I had waited. So perhaps a more accurate representation of the loading, and detecting whether some connection has messed up, would help.
Pokemaster 3 weeks, 3 days ago
One time, it stayed on my screen for two hours, and my internet connection was fine! It would be a lot better if the loading time was reduced.
One time, it stayed on my screen for two hours, and my internet connection was fine! It would be a lot better if the loading time was reduced.
1 comment
Latest 3 weeks, 4 days ago
Vick 3 weeks, 4 days ago
I have found an application that will convert the simplified characters to traditional. Works very well! Called New Tong Wen Tang. Now everyone can use the simplified courses to study traditional characters.
I have found an application that will convert the simplified characters to traditional. Works very well! Called New Tong Wen Tang. Now everyone can use the simplified courses to study traditional characters.
confusables are sometimes used to generate tricky answers for the multiple choice.
if there are insufficient confusables, auto confusables can be used: in multi-char words, use words that have one or more of the chars in common. also use parents and children. or characters that share parents or children.
also, auto-confusables could show up when editing a word so curators can easily add them to confusables, or, alternately, opt out of them.
if there are insufficient confusables, auto confusables can be used: in multi-char words, use words that have one or more of the chars in common. also use parents and children. or characters that share parents or children.
also, auto-confusables could show up when editing a word so curators can easily add them to confusables, or, alternately, opt out of them.
0 comments
I think the database should distinguish true words from components somehow. We learn the meanings of a lot of characters that you would be ridiculous to use in a sentence. Knowing which words we're learning "in order to understand/remember/learn well the REAL word" and which are the REAL WORDS we REALLY should use to form sentences may be very important, right?
Similarly, written vs. spoken may be a future issue?
Similarly, written vs. spoken may be a future issue?
11 comments
Latest 3 weeks, 5 days ago
Azimuth 3 weeks, 6 days ago
It would be great to have both of these via a tagging system or something. The only trouble is that I suspect that in many cases the classification would be something like 'mostly a component but used as a real character in a few uncommon words' or 'mostly written but spoken in a few set phrases', which might make a binary tag system not so helpful. (I could be wrong though - would love to hear other opinions).
The alternative is to include info like this in something like the present 'extra info' field, but understandably relatively few people contribute these sort of mems, as they require extra research rather than just committing the word and mem to memory.
It would be great to have both of these via a tagging system or something. The only trouble is that I suspect that in many cases the classification would be something like 'mostly a component but used as a real character in a few uncommon words' or 'mostly written but spoken in a few set phrases', which might make a binary tag system not so helpful. (I could be wrong though - would love to hear other opinions).
The alternative is to include info like this in something like the present 'extra info' field, but understandably relatively few people contribute these sort of mems, as they require extra research rather than just committing the word and mem to memory.
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 6 days ago
i was thinking more about this as well. my guess is that you're right, it's pretty sticky. perhaps lists could have their own tags, tagging which words are "target words" and which ones, _for that list_, are "helper words." Then you could see, "oh, for HSK 1 this is just a helper word." And then we would know target ones are really the high-usage ones for that set. If a set is about writing, then the targets mean that. For lower levels, probably speaking but in some cases may be reading. Sets/courses I mean could sort that out.
Good solution?
i was thinking more about this as well. my guess is that you're right, it's pretty sticky. perhaps lists could have their own tags, tagging which words are "target words" and which ones, _for that list_, are "helper words." Then you could see, "oh, for HSK 1 this is just a helper word." And then we would know target ones are really the high-usage ones for that set. If a set is about writing, then the targets mean that. For lower levels, probably speaking but in some cases may be reading. Sets/courses I mean could sort that out.
Good solution?
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 6 days ago
The reason I worry about this is this: when I look through the English meanings for the beginner courses, whether survival mandarin or hsk 1, I see a lot of words people will want to use, and really the words they are learning aren't what they should really say. Mandarin has this problem, so something has to be done to prevent mis-learning or misunderstanding what we're learning.
The reason I worry about this is this: when I look through the English meanings for the beginner courses, whether survival mandarin or hsk 1, I see a lot of words people will want to use, and really the words they are learning aren't what they should really say. Mandarin has this problem, so something has to be done to prevent mis-learning or misunderstanding what we're learning.
Azimuth 3 weeks, 6 days ago
Sounds good, but for written vs. oral forms (or formal vs. informal) I really hope we can get these marked up in some form like the 'extra info' field. This is the sort of info that is often hard for learners to discover, and trivially easy for native speakers. We really need more native speakers to contribute to building memrise's data. Don't know how to achieve that though.
Sounds good, but for written vs. oral forms (or formal vs. informal) I really hope we can get these marked up in some form like the 'extra info' field. This is the sort of info that is often hard for learners to discover, and trivially easy for native speakers. We really need more native speakers to contribute to building memrise's data. Don't know how to achieve that though.
joejanz 3 weeks, 5 days ago
I agree, I've thought about suggesting this myself.
The way I imagine it working is as a little note beside the symbol saying something like "only a radical" or "only a character, not a word by itself".
I agree, I've thought about suggesting this myself.
The way I imagine it working is as a little note beside the symbol saying something like "only a radical" or "only a character, not a word by itself".
benwhately 3 weeks, 5 days ago
This is an excellent point. I am planning to add in "(radical)" after every meaning that is not actually the common meaning. I will then put in a tool tip so that if you hover over it you get an explanation of what a radical is. For words where there is the radical meaning and a common meaning, we could then have both meanings displayed at once,
eg: 又 = right hand (radical), again.
What do you think? Would that work? Or should we still keep the two versions separate?
Best wishes
Ben
This is an excellent point. I am planning to add in "(radical)" after every meaning that is not actually the common meaning. I will then put in a tool tip so that if you hover over it you get an explanation of what a radical is. For words where there is the radical meaning and a common meaning, we could then have both meanings displayed at once,
eg: 又 = right hand (radical), again.
What do you think? Would that work? Or should we still keep the two versions separate?
Best wishes
Ben
ThatHorse 3 weeks, 5 days ago
I kind of think they are almost totally separate words. When we learn about the right hand radical, we shouldn't face unnecessary information. Learning is maximized when each side of the card is kept as simple as possible. If we are just learning about the right hand radical in other characters, it should be kept at that. Learning that by itself it can mean "again" in some sense, is a totally separate event. Maybe the two should happen close to each other but not always, and not necessarily.
But should the words be linked in some way? Definitely. They are like alternate meanings of the same character. Ultimately when someone looks up a character they should see all the words that match it. Maybe it could work like that: there is one entry for 又, but then you see multiple meanings or "words" for it.
I kind of think they are almost totally separate words. When we learn about the right hand radical, we shouldn't face unnecessary information. Learning is maximized when each side of the card is kept as simple as possible. If we are just learning about the right hand radical in other characters, it should be kept at that. Learning that by itself it can mean "again" in some sense, is a totally separate event. Maybe the two should happen close to each other but not always, and not necessarily.
But should the words be linked in some way? Definitely. They are like alternate meanings of the same character. Ultimately when someone looks up a character they should see all the words that match it. Maybe it could work like that: there is one entry for 又, but then you see multiple meanings or "words" for it.
Azimuth 3 weeks, 5 days ago
Ben, that sounds good (as long as giving either answer is marked correct).
Ben, that sounds good (as long as giving either answer is marked correct).
r7ll 3 weeks, 5 days ago
I think including multiple definitions in the main definition entry seems like the most elegant way of approaching the issue of homographs.
It would certainly make mem construction a lot easier (all too often the primary definition or a parent makes no sense when it comes to learning a dependent word, but one of the accepted English alternatives is spot on).
If on hover tooltips are available, that would be excellent.
For example, we could have:
Word: 觉
Pinyin: jiao4; jue2
English: To sleep; to feel
On hover tooltip:
睡觉 - shui4jiao4 - to sleep;
感觉 - gan3jue2 - to feel.
I think including multiple definitions in the main definition entry seems like the most elegant way of approaching the issue of homographs.
It would certainly make mem construction a lot easier (all too often the primary definition or a parent makes no sense when it comes to learning a dependent word, but one of the accepted English alternatives is spot on).
If on hover tooltips are available, that would be excellent.
For example, we could have:
Word: 觉
Pinyin: jiao4; jue2
English: To sleep; to feel
On hover tooltip:
睡觉 - shui4jiao4 - to sleep;
感觉 - gan3jue2 - to feel.
Azimuth 3 weeks, 5 days ago
@ 7ll - I think it's important to consider separately:
1) Characters which are pronounced in a certain way, regardless of their multiple meanings;
2) Characters which take on different meanings, according to how they are pronounced.
In the case of the latter, I think separate definitions (separate entries in the dictionary) are still the best way to avoid confusion. Then each time you are tested, you will be strengthening the association between pronunciation and meaning. Of course, an explanatory link to the other pronunciation/meaning/definition of that character would be very helpful (in the 'other info' or similar).
@ 7ll - I think it's important to consider separately:
1) Characters which are pronounced in a certain way, regardless of their multiple meanings;
2) Characters which take on different meanings, according to how they are pronounced.
In the case of the latter, I think separate definitions (separate entries in the dictionary) are still the best way to avoid confusion. Then each time you are tested, you will be strengthening the association between pronunciation and meaning. Of course, an explanatory link to the other pronunciation/meaning/definition of that character would be very helpful (in the 'other info' or similar).
r7ll 3 weeks, 5 days ago
@Azimuth yeah I agree. I don't think I picked my example very well to illustrate my point. In retrospect, Case 2) should indeed be kept as separate entries.
@Azimuth yeah I agree. I don't think I picked my example very well to illustrate my point. In retrospect, Case 2) should indeed be kept as separate entries.
I'm getting annoyed with having to put a gap between characters in pinyin for single words. For example for 工作 I sometimes type in 'gong1zuo4' -- but I get marked as 'nearly' instead of 'correct' because I didn't write 'gong1 zuo4'. I think this should be changed so that 'gong1zuo4' is an acceptable answer. All the textbooks I've ever read always group pinyin together with no space for characters which form a single word.
What do others think?
What do others think?
4 comments
Latest 1 month ago
chaered 1 month ago
The funny thing is it used to accept that, when I started using memrise a while back.
The funny thing is it used to accept that, when I started using memrise a while back.
chaered 1 month ago
Another thing about pinyin: When I type in some feedback in the feedback widget after a round, and this includes some Chinese characters, the auto-reply (receiving acknowledgement) e-mail that memrise sends me includes that text, but: with pinyin (sans tone digit) substituted for the chars -- is that a bug or a feature?
Another thing about pinyin: When I type in some feedback in the feedback widget after a round, and this includes some Chinese characters, the auto-reply (receiving acknowledgement) e-mail that memrise sends me includes that text, but: with pinyin (sans tone digit) substituted for the chars -- is that a bug or a feature?
benwhately 1 month ago
The way that the feedback box behaves is sort of a bug, but not one that w are actually going to fix in the near future: it stems from the way that text is encoded there, and for various reasons it is much easier to do it that way. It is annoying for the feedback, but generally the letters give me the info I need, and fixing it would be a bit of work for pretty small gain. So apologies for that, but I think that glitch is going to stay for a while!
Best wishes
Ben
The way that the feedback box behaves is sort of a bug, but not one that w are actually going to fix in the near future: it stems from the way that text is encoded there, and for various reasons it is much easier to do it that way. It is annoying for the feedback, but generally the letters give me the info I need, and fixing it would be a bit of work for pretty small gain. So apologies for that, but I think that glitch is going to stay for a while!
Best wishes
Ben
bradrapstars 1 month ago
I really hope you can fix it quickly, because the no-space version is the correct form based on the actual Hanyu Pinyin specifications.
I really hope you can fix it quickly, because the no-space version is the correct form based on the actual Hanyu Pinyin specifications.
I can upload an mp3 file into words that have no audio, but often the word does not let me edit it.
7 comments
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month ago
Memrise is a wiki, so the audio is mostly supplied by users. It would be hugely appreciated if you could help with uploading more audio - all we ask is that it is native-speaker audio; the audio files will be there for everyone to hear, so it is important that they are correct. For uploading lots of audio at once, you can read the instructions here http://www.memrise.com/faq/...
Or you can do it one by one - please let me know and I can give you the permissions to be able to do that.
Best wishes
Ben
Memrise is a wiki, so the audio is mostly supplied by users. It would be hugely appreciated if you could help with uploading more audio - all we ask is that it is native-speaker audio; the audio files will be there for everyone to hear, so it is important that they are correct. For uploading lots of audio at once, you can read the instructions here http://www.memrise.com/faq/...
Or you can do it one by one - please let me know and I can give you the permissions to be able to do that.
Best wishes
Ben
dmheikin 1 month ago
Ben, Wonderful. I'd like the permits you mention, assuming I can then edit those words that currently have no "edit" function. Thanks, Denise
Ben, Wonderful. I'd like the permits you mention, assuming I can then edit those words that currently have no "edit" function. Thanks, Denise
dmheikin 1 month ago
a possible problem--I just uploaded mp3s for the phrase 这件事. However, my recordings are in 3 pieces, one for each word, and when the program plays them back it only plays one of the words. Is there a way to make it play all three words when you click on the sound icon? This example is from Previous session
dmheikin American Folk Tale--Chicken Little aka Henny Penny. Thanks,
Denise
a possible problem--I just uploaded mp3s for the phrase 这件事. However, my recordings are in 3 pieces, one for each word, and when the program plays them back it only plays one of the words. Is there a way to make it play all three words when you click on the sound icon? This example is from Previous session
dmheikin American Folk Tale--Chicken Little aka Henny Penny. Thanks,
Denise
benwhately 1 month ago
Great, I have given you the permissions to upload audio and to edit items now.
Those wordsets that you are creating look brilliant! Could you put the test of the Chicken LIttle story that you translated into the "description", so that we can all read it? That would be amazing!
One thing though - I notice that you have been creating items using the diacritic tone marks rather than using the numbers. This causes some trouble with the testing, because the program is not set up to work with the diacritic lines (because a lot of people have trouble entering them). COuld you possibly use the numbers for items that you add?
I'm afraid that if you upload three separate audio files, then it will play them as three separate audio files - because of the way that tones change when words are siad together, it is probably best to record the words all spoken together rather than adding three separate audio files anyway. Does that make sense? Shall I remove those audio files for you?
Best wishes and please let me know if I can do anything else to help,
Ben
Great, I have given you the permissions to upload audio and to edit items now.
Those wordsets that you are creating look brilliant! Could you put the test of the Chicken LIttle story that you translated into the "description", so that we can all read it? That would be amazing!
One thing though - I notice that you have been creating items using the diacritic tone marks rather than using the numbers. This causes some trouble with the testing, because the program is not set up to work with the diacritic lines (because a lot of people have trouble entering them). COuld you possibly use the numbers for items that you add?
I'm afraid that if you upload three separate audio files, then it will play them as three separate audio files - because of the way that tones change when words are siad together, it is probably best to record the words all spoken together rather than adding three separate audio files anyway. Does that make sense? Shall I remove those audio files for you?
Best wishes and please let me know if I can do anything else to help,
Ben
dmheikin 1 month ago
Ben and Carl,
I see what you mean about the diacritics. I've tried on a couple words to change them to numbers but I got error messages saying the editing would be fixed soon. So I'll wait until I hear back about how to correct the diacritics to numbers.
About the audios. I am downloading them from another program, Arch Chinese, but I can only get separate character audios. I am also not sure how to delete the audios.
I put the Chinese text of my presentation in the description box. Hope that helps. I give the presentation tomorrow night to my class, along with slides of both stories.
Ben and Carl,
I see what you mean about the diacritics. I've tried on a couple words to change them to numbers but I got error messages saying the editing would be fixed soon. So I'll wait until I hear back about how to correct the diacritics to numbers.
About the audios. I am downloading them from another program, Arch Chinese, but I can only get separate character audios. I am also not sure how to delete the audios.
I put the Chinese text of my presentation in the description box. Hope that helps. I give the presentation tomorrow night to my class, along with slides of both stories.
benwhately 1 month ago
I will try to get the audio recorded for you right away, and will delete the audio that is broken up. I will also edit the diacritics - in future you should be able to just paste in a list of the Chinese characters and find the right items in the wiki, which should make things much faster for you.
Thanks
Ben
I will try to get the audio recorded for you right away, and will delete the audio that is broken up. I will also edit the diacritics - in future you should be able to just paste in a list of the Chinese characters and find the right items in the wiki, which should make things much faster for you.
Thanks
Ben
Some of the pinyin seems to follow the "written pronunciation" while others seem to follow "spoken pronunciation".
For example, 不客气 is displayed as bu2ke4qi5 - following spoken rules, e.g. the first of two consecutive fourth tones is spoken in second tone.
But 手表 is displayed as shou3biao3 - following the written rules. Because the spoken rule is that the first of two consecutive third tones is spoken in second tone (e.g. shou2biao3).
I think that they should all follow the second example- as that's how dictionaries, etc... tend to list them and it makes it easier to learn 不 is always bu4. Then you just need to learn 3 or 4 pronunciation rules.
For example, 不客气 is displayed as bu2ke4qi5 - following spoken rules, e.g. the first of two consecutive fourth tones is spoken in second tone.
But 手表 is displayed as shou3biao3 - following the written rules. Because the spoken rule is that the first of two consecutive third tones is spoken in second tone (e.g. shou2biao3).
I think that they should all follow the second example- as that's how dictionaries, etc... tend to list them and it makes it easier to learn 不 is always bu4. Then you just need to learn 3 or 4 pronunciation rules.
5 comments
Latest 1 month ago
jenniferhunter 2 months, 1 week ago
I second that - it makes learning the phrases easier as the pinyin is consistent with the individual characters that make up the phrase. it's hard to remember which phrase uses the speaking pinyin format (i'm sorry: dui4 bu5 qi3) when there are others that don't follow that format (to understand: liao3 jie3).
I second that - it makes learning the phrases easier as the pinyin is consistent with the individual characters that make up the phrase. it's hard to remember which phrase uses the speaking pinyin format (i'm sorry: dui4 bu5 qi3) when there are others that don't follow that format (to understand: liao3 jie3).
Azimuth 2 months, 1 week ago
When we're talking about words taking on neutral tones - e.g. 对不起 dui4 bu5 qi3 - this is different from 'tone sandhi', or the rules governing how tones change in combination with other tones - e.g. 不是 bu4 shi4 is pronounced bu2 shi4. Neutral tones should always be written as neutral, regardless of what we decide about marking tone sandhi. Otherwise, how will users know they're supposed to be pronounced with a neutral tone?Regarding sandhi, some books mark tones according to 一 yi and 不 sandhi, some do not. 3rd tone changes should probably be left alone though.
When we're talking about words taking on neutral tones - e.g. 对不起 dui4 bu5 qi3 - this is different from 'tone sandhi', or the rules governing how tones change in combination with other tones - e.g. 不是 bu4 shi4 is pronounced bu2 shi4. Neutral tones should always be written as neutral, regardless of what we decide about marking tone sandhi. Otherwise, how will users know they're supposed to be pronounced with a neutral tone?Regarding sandhi, some books mark tones according to 一 yi and 不 sandhi, some do not. 3rd tone changes should probably be left alone though.
jenniferhunter 2 months, 1 week ago
I guess my problem is this: I understand (intellectually) the tone sandhi and how tones shift , including the neutral tone- it makes speaking a lot easier when you say ni2 hao3 instead of ni3 hao3. The problem is that I wish that the neutral tone rule be made implicit rather than explicit. For example - everyone in this course learned "you" as ni3 - but when in a phrase - you good - ni3 hao3 we pronounced it ni2 hao3. Did the characters change that we changed how we pronounced it. Would you write the characters differently to account for the pronunciation difference. No - we changed the pronunciation based on context or location of the character in RELATION to the words around it. I guess I'm comparing it to how English speakers treat the word "read". Depending on context an English speaking person will pronounce this word differently. For example: I will read this book tomorrow. I read this book yesterday. Hopefully, you pronounced "read" differently in both sentences. The English language does not differentiate between the two homographs. We expect the English student to incorporate this rule implicitly as opposed to explicitly, i.e. by not changing the spelling for the past couple of hundred years. Other languages have their own pronunciation foibles as well. For example, french is notorious for differentiating between spelling and pronunciation - can you say "vous êtes"?. (hint - you don't pronounce the last es.) Do we (or the French) change the spelling for that language to better reflect the pronunciation? No, we don't and the French would kill us if we tried. We just learn the pronunciation SEPARATE from the spelling. Note - I can come up with more language idiosyncrasies if you want in other languages as well but that's not the point of this discussion. In the example I wrote - dui4 bu5 qi3 , the user has to learn that the bu4/not character is pronounced with a neutral tone WHEN speaking that phrase, not when writing or reading. We don't change the character for bu4 to do this - it is an understood rule of speaking the language in it's context. This is spelled out in multiple sources online - wikipedia.com for one: Rules for "一" and "不"I guess what I'm advocating is that I would like a 1:1 relationship between the characters and the spelling (aka the pinyin). People who want to speak will take the extra step and listen to audio sources and read up on the rules so that they can pronounce the words correctly in a sentence or phrase. That's why I'm listening to shows like Dong Yi (my eyes and ears bleed every time I have to put it on) and the mandarin news so I can get a feel for the sound of the language and the words IN CONTEXT. Please note - I'm not advocating the abolishment of learning tones. As I have stated elsewhere - they're (the tones) the necessary guide posts that we need to apply the pronunciation rules. (BTW - Ben W. if your are reading this, accents mean a lot in other languages - esta (adj) and está (verb) are two entirely different words in Spanish.) I just think it would be difficult for Memrise or anyone to account for all the pronunciation minutia involved in learning a language. Simply making a 1:1 relationship between character and pinyin spelling ensures consistency across all the mandarin courses and is easier to manage than constantly making exceptions for each individual case. I like consistency. It makes life easier when learning a new language or any new piece of information. While I hope that memrise would come on "my side", it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day (whatever happens) - I just have to memorize the "correct" memrise spelling to pass the memrise typing test. Other sites will have different "correct" definitions and spellings and I have to learn their "correct" spelling too.
I guess my problem is this: I understand (intellectually) the tone sandhi and how tones shift , including the neutral tone- it makes speaking a lot easier when you say ni2 hao3 instead of ni3 hao3. The problem is that I wish that the neutral tone rule be made implicit rather than explicit. For example - everyone in this course learned "you" as ni3 - but when in a phrase - you good - ni3 hao3 we pronounced it ni2 hao3. Did the characters change that we changed how we pronounced it. Would you write the characters differently to account for the pronunciation difference. No - we changed the pronunciation based on context or location of the character in RELATION to the words around it. I guess I'm comparing it to how English speakers treat the word "read". Depending on context an English speaking person will pronounce this word differently. For example: I will read this book tomorrow. I read this book yesterday. Hopefully, you pronounced "read" differently in both sentences. The English language does not differentiate between the two homographs. We expect the English student to incorporate this rule implicitly as opposed to explicitly, i.e. by not changing the spelling for the past couple of hundred years. Other languages have their own pronunciation foibles as well. For example, french is notorious for differentiating between spelling and pronunciation - can you say "vous êtes"?. (hint - you don't pronounce the last es.) Do we (or the French) change the spelling for that language to better reflect the pronunciation? No, we don't and the French would kill us if we tried. We just learn the pronunciation SEPARATE from the spelling. Note - I can come up with more language idiosyncrasies if you want in other languages as well but that's not the point of this discussion. In the example I wrote - dui4 bu5 qi3 , the user has to learn that the bu4/not character is pronounced with a neutral tone WHEN speaking that phrase, not when writing or reading. We don't change the character for bu4 to do this - it is an understood rule of speaking the language in it's context. This is spelled out in multiple sources online - wikipedia.com for one: Rules for "一" and "不"I guess what I'm advocating is that I would like a 1:1 relationship between the characters and the spelling (aka the pinyin). People who want to speak will take the extra step and listen to audio sources and read up on the rules so that they can pronounce the words correctly in a sentence or phrase. That's why I'm listening to shows like Dong Yi (my eyes and ears bleed every time I have to put it on) and the mandarin news so I can get a feel for the sound of the language and the words IN CONTEXT. Please note - I'm not advocating the abolishment of learning tones. As I have stated elsewhere - they're (the tones) the necessary guide posts that we need to apply the pronunciation rules. (BTW - Ben W. if your are reading this, accents mean a lot in other languages - esta (adj) and está (verb) are two entirely different words in Spanish.) I just think it would be difficult for Memrise or anyone to account for all the pronunciation minutia involved in learning a language. Simply making a 1:1 relationship between character and pinyin spelling ensures consistency across all the mandarin courses and is easier to manage than constantly making exceptions for each individual case. I like consistency. It makes life easier when learning a new language or any new piece of information. While I hope that memrise would come on "my side", it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day (whatever happens) - I just have to memorize the "correct" memrise spelling to pass the memrise typing test. Other sites will have different "correct" definitions and spellings and I have to learn their "correct" spelling too.
benwhately 2 months, 1 week ago
Our current policy is to write the dictionary version first, then semi colon, then the version with changed tones. It seems like a bad idea to mark people wrong for writing the tones in the way that they are spoken, because it *is* correct. But these rules have yet to be applied everywhere. If you spot items that don't have both versions, it would be hugely appreciated if you could add a comment in pointing it out, and then we can get it fixed.Thanks and best wishesBen
Our current policy is to write the dictionary version first, then semi colon, then the version with changed tones. It seems like a bad idea to mark people wrong for writing the tones in the way that they are spoken, because it *is* correct. But these rules have yet to be applied everywhere. If you spot items that don't have both versions, it would be hugely appreciated if you could add a comment in pointing it out, and then we can get it fixed.Thanks and best wishesBen
chaered 1 month ago
There seem to be 3 separate cases: 3rd to 2nd, tome to neutral, and 一 (yi1) and 不 (bu4) doing their special case (their sandhi rules are different from all other characters). I've seen yi/bu changes spelled out explicitly in other pinyin texts, tone to neutral sometimes, and 3rd to 2nd almost never.
There seem to be 3 separate cases: 3rd to 2nd, tome to neutral, and 一 (yi1) and 不 (bu4) doing their special case (their sandhi rules are different from all other characters). I've seen yi/bu changes spelled out explicitly in other pinyin texts, tone to neutral sometimes, and 3rd to 2nd almost never.
Does anyone find they get the verbs wrong because sometimes the answer wants the word "to" before the verb and other times it doesn't want it - I keep getting it wrong eg just answered "to sense" and should have put sense. I don't know how to get around this.
11 comments
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
This shouldn't happen, if you do come across words where this is the cse, please leave a comment and I will fix it at once.
Thanks and apologies or the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
This shouldn't happen, if you do come across words where this is the cse, please leave a comment and I will fix it at once.
Thanks and apologies or the annoyance,
Best wishes
Ben
r7ll 1 month, 1 week ago
Should we agree on some kind of convention relating to verbs? Should the primary definition always be in the infinitive? i.e. "to sense" would be the definition as displayed on the word page, and "sense" would be added as an english alternative.
Should we agree on some kind of convention relating to verbs? Should the primary definition always be in the infinitive? i.e. "to sense" would be the definition as displayed on the word page, and "sense" would be added as an english alternative.
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
Yes, definitely, the convention should be as you say. I will write up the Mandarin conventions over the weekend - they are long overdue!
Thanks
Ben
Yes, definitely, the convention should be as you say. I will write up the Mandarin conventions over the weekend - they are long overdue!
Thanks
Ben
TL-TheUltimate 1 month, 1 week ago
Hi Ben,
Do you monitor all words, or just the words in the lists you have created? There are a few words I've come across with bad pinyin/translations that I'd like to see fixed, but I'm not sure you'll see it if I comment on them.
Hi Ben,
Do you monitor all words, or just the words in the lists you have created? There are a few words I've come across with bad pinyin/translations that I'd like to see fixed, but I'm not sure you'll see it if I comment on them.
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
Hi, I see any notes that you make on any word on Memrise - if it is in Mandarin then I will edit it myself, or if it is in another languages then I can forward the comment to one of the curators, or edit it myself depending on the complexity.
So please do leave comments on any words that need attention and I will get them fixed ASAP.
Thanks!
Ben
Hi, I see any notes that you make on any word on Memrise - if it is in Mandarin then I will edit it myself, or if it is in another languages then I can forward the comment to one of the curators, or edit it myself depending on the complexity.
So please do leave comments on any words that need attention and I will get them fixed ASAP.
Thanks!
Ben
dmheikin 1 month ago
I too am bothered by the use of the infinitive form of English verbs. THis is a hangover from Latin, but not always useful except when it differentiates verbs from nouns. For instance, "sense," can be either a noun or a verb, and I imagine the Chinese use a different characters for each.
I too am bothered by the use of the infinitive form of English verbs. THis is a hangover from Latin, but not always useful except when it differentiates verbs from nouns. For instance, "sense," can be either a noun or a verb, and I imagine the Chinese use a different characters for each.
chaered 1 month ago
Standardizing the entries to uniformly use "to X" for verbs would be a great help. This could maybe go hand in hand with making sure the word class includes "verb" for those entries? Also, what to a do about cases where a word could be an adjective vs. a noun, e.g. "patient", or an adjective vs. something else ("even", "still", etc.)? Some of these ambiguous words have a clarification in parentheses following the main translation, but many still lack one.
Standardizing the entries to uniformly use "to X" for verbs would be a great help. This could maybe go hand in hand with making sure the word class includes "verb" for those entries? Also, what to a do about cases where a word could be an adjective vs. a noun, e.g. "patient", or an adjective vs. something else ("even", "still", etc.)? Some of these ambiguous words have a clarification in parentheses following the main translation, but many still lack one.
benwhately 1 month ago
@chaered, good point - I think that making comments on the ambiguous items as well is the best thing to do. Then we can get them all fixed up ASAP.
Thanks!
Ben
@chaered, good point - I think that making comments on the ambiguous items as well is the best thing to do. Then we can get them all fixed up ASAP.
Thanks!
Ben
dmheikin 1 month ago
On a similar vein, some definitions for nouns begin with the article and some don't. If I don't put the article on a test when the definition includes it, I am marked wrong. But it really is a petty complaint and I usually am able to correct myself for the next test, so I hope you don't feel compelled to correct every tiny issue. :)
On a similar vein, some definitions for nouns begin with the article and some don't. If I don't put the article on a test when the definition includes it, I am marked wrong. But it really is a petty complaint and I usually am able to correct myself for the next test, so I hope you don't feel compelled to correct every tiny issue. :)
chaered 1 month ago
Ideally (I think) the interface would be strict in showing some disambiguating word ("to" for verbs, "a/the" for nouns, etc.) when presenting the work, but lenient in not requiring it in answers. It could also change the answer by adding in the disambiguation automatically while showing the answer in green for a second, or something like that.
On a separate not, if the answer is wrong (for a question that requires typing in a word), would it be possible to display the wrong answer that was entered?
Ideally (I think) the interface would be strict in showing some disambiguating word ("to" for verbs, "a/the" for nouns, etc.) when presenting the work, but lenient in not requiring it in answers. It could also change the answer by adding in the disambiguation automatically while showing the answer in green for a second, or something like that.
On a separate not, if the answer is wrong (for a question that requires typing in a word), would it be possible to display the wrong answer that was entered?
I've just started making my first course and I'm surprised at how many things have to be done manually at this point, and how many small obstacles there are when you're editing. I'm amazed at how people have made such large high quality courses when a lot of small extra work is left to be done largely manually (finding parents, pinyin, translations, and occasionally unable to find the word when adding it even though you know it's there). Truly amazing, a lot of hard work!
I imagine the creators of these featured Mandarin courses _must_ have already requested a lot of features; are things like this already in the pipeline?
- add just the hanzi and the dependencies, pinyin, English alternatives are popped in there automatically
- when you are adding a dependency, sometimes you put a character into the hanzi box and actually the single character just won't come up, but if you know the English side of it, you can find it (try with 天 for example, or 路)
- fix dependencies being recursive
I imagine the creators of these featured Mandarin courses _must_ have already requested a lot of features; are things like this already in the pipeline?
- add just the hanzi and the dependencies, pinyin, English alternatives are popped in there automatically
- when you are adding a dependency, sometimes you put a character into the hanzi box and actually the single character just won't come up, but if you know the English side of it, you can find it (try with 天 for example, or 路)
- fix dependencies being recursive
1 comment
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month ago
I am very sorry that this isn't clearer - perhaps give the new course creation tool a try when you are editing you list. We are going to make that live in the next day or so, but you can use it already. Just go to the "edit" page where you add words, and then add "new" to the end of the url.
The way that Memrise works is that all wordlists use the same items in the same database. We have got a database of over 120,000 words and definitions in Mandarin, and all of those items have the pinyin already added, and almost all of the individual characters already have the parents added. So you shouldn't find that you have to add either of those often at all. When you add words one by one, a list of the matches should come up underneath the add words box. If you select the item from there, then it will add that item in the database, complete with all the parents, audio files, mems etc that already exist for that item.
In fact, to create a wordlist on the new tool, you can just paste a list of characters into the box, and it will pull all the matches out of the database at once. Then you just go through choosing any of the ambiguous matches, and you are done.
I hope that helps, please do let me know if you have any more questions,
Best wishes
Ben
I am very sorry that this isn't clearer - perhaps give the new course creation tool a try when you are editing you list. We are going to make that live in the next day or so, but you can use it already. Just go to the "edit" page where you add words, and then add "new" to the end of the url.
The way that Memrise works is that all wordlists use the same items in the same database. We have got a database of over 120,000 words and definitions in Mandarin, and all of those items have the pinyin already added, and almost all of the individual characters already have the parents added. So you shouldn't find that you have to add either of those often at all. When you add words one by one, a list of the matches should come up underneath the add words box. If you select the item from there, then it will add that item in the database, complete with all the parents, audio files, mems etc that already exist for that item.
In fact, to create a wordlist on the new tool, you can just paste a list of characters into the box, and it will pull all the matches out of the database at once. Then you just go through choosing any of the ambiguous matches, and you are done.
I hope that helps, please do let me know if you have any more questions,
Best wishes
Ben
Some mems are gaining popularity by being in the wrong category, for instance, mneumonic mems in the "sample" category have little competition.
Is there a way to easily mark mems as "wrong category" as we view them in the mem stream?
Is there a way to easily mark mems as "wrong category" as we view them in the mem stream?
4 comments
Latest 1 month ago
romduda 1 month ago
There seem to be a lot of mems in the wrong categories, I agree. Maybe we could leave a comment under the mem?
There seem to be a lot of mems in the wrong categories, I agree. Maybe we could leave a comment under the mem?
Azimuth 1 month ago
The best solution for now would probably be to become a curator for mandarin (just put up a post or email Ben), then you can fix this yourself as you come across them.
The best solution for now would probably be to become a curator for mandarin (just put up a post or email Ben), then you can fix this yourself as you come across them.
benwhately 1 month ago
Can curators edit all the mems? I actually didn't realise that! That would be a good solution, or commenting would also work fine - whichever is easier for you!
Thanks
Ben
Can curators edit all the mems? I actually didn't realise that! That would be a good solution, or commenting would also work fine - whichever is easier for you!
Thanks
Ben
ThatHorse 1 month ago
"for now" indeed. The problem is that problems are probably being created faster than we should expect to fix them. Some systemic features (ultimately) have to tip the balance.
Maybe a "wrong category" button, to encourage people to kind of "thumbs down" things that are in the wrong category and alert their author to perhaps change the category?
And a feature for curators to browse a list of things flagged "wrong category"?
"for now" indeed. The problem is that problems are probably being created faster than we should expect to fix them. Some systemic features (ultimately) have to tip the balance.
Maybe a "wrong category" button, to encourage people to kind of "thumbs down" things that are in the wrong category and alert their author to perhaps change the category?
And a feature for curators to browse a list of things flagged "wrong category"?
Hey there! Have been having great success with learning characters so far; but have slammed on the brakes a little right now. Reason being, I'd also like to maximise my efforts, and combine learning stroke order - and how to write the characters that I'm learning how to read...
Wondering if people have any suggestions on the most efficient way to do this, or if they have any good links that will match up with the Mandarin Survival/Essential/Radical courses without too much confusion!! Xiè xiè in advance for any help offered! : )
Wondering if people have any suggestions on the most efficient way to do this, or if they have any good links that will match up with the Mandarin Survival/Essential/Radical courses without too much confusion!! Xiè xiè in advance for any help offered! : )
6 comments
Latest 1 month ago
Miatara 2 months ago
I know that for some of the characters there is a video that shows how to write the character (you can find it by clicking the "Show more" button when you learn a new word). I don't know if the video is there for every character because I started using a different program to learn the stroke order. If there isn't a video for each character, I recommend using another program to learn the stroke order as you learn new words through memrise. I've been doing this and it's really helped me learn the stroke order as I learn the new vocabulary. Basically, what I've been doing is, each time plant a new seed and they show me the main page for it with the mem, I go to another tab on the pc where I can look up the character and watch the stroke order. As I watch, I write it in my notebook. I've also been using the coloring system as I write to help myself remember the tones by using a red pen for first tone, orange for second, green for third, blue for fourth and black for the neutral fifth. It's really been helping me learn the tones as I practice writing the Hanzi. Anyway, hope this helps, good luck!
I know that for some of the characters there is a video that shows how to write the character (you can find it by clicking the "Show more" button when you learn a new word). I don't know if the video is there for every character because I started using a different program to learn the stroke order. If there isn't a video for each character, I recommend using another program to learn the stroke order as you learn new words through memrise. I've been doing this and it's really helped me learn the stroke order as I learn the new vocabulary. Basically, what I've been doing is, each time plant a new seed and they show me the main page for it with the mem, I go to another tab on the pc where I can look up the character and watch the stroke order. As I watch, I write it in my notebook. I've also been using the coloring system as I write to help myself remember the tones by using a red pen for first tone, orange for second, green for third, blue for fourth and black for the neutral fifth. It's really been helping me learn the tones as I practice writing the Hanzi. Anyway, hope this helps, good luck!
Miatara 2 months ago
You know, now that I'm thinking about it "program" isn't the write word. It's just an online Chinese dictionary that will also show you the stroke order. :/
You know, now that I'm thinking about it "program" isn't the write word. It's just an online Chinese dictionary that will also show you the stroke order. :/
TL-abhoriel 2 months ago
I'm not meaning to advertise here or anything, but Skritter is a great website for learning how to write characters, but its not free (I think it costs about 10 USD a month). It works especially well if you have a graphics tablet, which lets you write characters directly with a pen :)
I used this for a while, but I've stopped now. I learnt a few hundred characters with it, and I understand the basics of stroke order (I can generally write characters in the right order without having learnt them before now).
I'm not meaning to advertise here or anything, but Skritter is a great website for learning how to write characters, but its not free (I think it costs about 10 USD a month). It works especially well if you have a graphics tablet, which lets you write characters directly with a pen :)
I used this for a while, but I've stopped now. I learnt a few hundred characters with it, and I understand the basics of stroke order (I can generally write characters in the right order without having learnt them before now).
chilvence 1 month, 4 weeks ago
ARCH CHINESE! http://www.archchinese.com/
Ahem, but it seriously is a fantastic site, dictionary, animations, traditional and simplified glyphs, compound words, phrases, audio, all in one place...
Also, what I recommend is getting a load of pocket size, cheap notepads, sort of like the waiters notebook kind, that you wont be worried about messing up and can tear pages out of. Not only do you practice more frequently when you aren't worried about ruining a good notebook, you also have an instant set of flashcards prepared whenever you feel the need for them.
ARCH CHINESE! http://www.archchinese.com/
Ahem, but it seriously is a fantastic site, dictionary, animations, traditional and simplified glyphs, compound words, phrases, audio, all in one place...
Also, what I recommend is getting a load of pocket size, cheap notepads, sort of like the waiters notebook kind, that you wont be worried about messing up and can tear pages out of. Not only do you practice more frequently when you aren't worried about ruining a good notebook, you also have an instant set of flashcards prepared whenever you feel the need for them.
chaered 1 month ago
Also use zhongwen.com, then in the middle column click on the "Animated" link. On iPhone and Android try pleco.
Also use zhongwen.com, then in the middle column click on the "Animated" link. On iPhone and Android try pleco.
Do you practice recalling the Mandarin pronunciation or the English translation?
4 comments
Latest 1 month ago
Jeffec 1 month, 2 weeks ago
I found it easier to associate the English translation with the character. I've found it so hard to associate the right pinyin with the character in fact sometimes I feel like I am undoing my learning of what the character means but I'm keeping on trying!
I found it easier to associate the English translation with the character. I've found it so hard to associate the right pinyin with the character in fact sometimes I feel like I am undoing my learning of what the character means but I'm keeping on trying!
testsiegerin 1 month, 2 weeks ago
that differs. sometimes it's easyer to associate the english word, sometimes the pinyin. but the most difficult thing is to remember the numbers after the pinyin.
that differs. sometimes it's easyer to associate the english word, sometimes the pinyin. but the most difficult thing is to remember the numbers after the pinyin.
bb 1 month, 2 weeks ago
Agreed, I'm finding that for the characters I'm most comfortable with, I first think of the Mandarin. I wonder if it's better to separate the flash cards, one set for English and one for Mandarin with the same characters, or just do a ton of repetition with the combined set and hope it sticks.
Agreed, I'm finding that for the characters I'm most comfortable with, I first think of the Mandarin. I wonder if it's better to separate the flash cards, one set for English and one for Mandarin with the same characters, or just do a ton of repetition with the combined set and hope it sticks.
ThatHorse 1 month ago
I think they're totally separate things to acquire. I tend to try to say the mandarin when I see the character, and try to remember the meaning when I hear or say the sound (or pinyin).
I think they're totally separate things to acquire. I tend to try to say the mandarin when I see the character, and try to remember the meaning when I hear or say the sound (or pinyin).
There are certain characters which i know but constantly get wrong because i can't remember how the English translation is worded or choose "man" instead of "man (squished to the side)" in the multiple choice quizzes. Maybe there could be a way to mark the last question as right even if we got it wrong, just not awarding points for it?
9 comments
Latest 1 month ago
carl_a 1 month ago
I would like this too...another example:
上网 "to surf the internet"--sounds like someone from 1996 talking. Maybe it just needs to be more tolerant of alternative answers. In this example, the Chinese translates closely to "go on the net", so that's closer to what I'm likely to regurgitate.
I would like this too...another example:
上网 "to surf the internet"--sounds like someone from 1996 talking. Maybe it just needs to be more tolerant of alternative answers. In this example, the Chinese translates closely to "go on the net", so that's closer to what I'm likely to regurgitate.
r7ll 1 month ago
Curators and mods can add accepted alternative meanings to the word. You could start a discussion on the word page, making your suggestions, and at some point a mod or curator can come and perform the changes. At the moment I believe only mods get notified of new comments on words, but hopefully curators will also be soon?
Curators and mods can add accepted alternative meanings to the word. You could start a discussion on the word page, making your suggestions, and at some point a mod or curator can come and perform the changes. At the moment I believe only mods get notified of new comments on words, but hopefully curators will also be soon?
carl_a 1 month ago
Okay, I'll start doing this when I think an improvement is possible. Is there a way to view the acceptable alternatives?
Okay, I'll start doing this when I think an improvement is possible. Is there a way to view the acceptable alternatives?
r7ll 1 month ago
On the word page, look down the right hand side, you'll find the list there. (by word page I mean, it's page on the website. When you're learning/watering you see a slightly more condensed version which doesn't show you the full details. You can get to the full page by choosing the "edit" option from the menu at the top. Alternatively, click on the corresponding flower after your watering session.)
On the word page, look down the right hand side, you'll find the list there. (by word page I mean, it's page on the website. When you're learning/watering you see a slightly more condensed version which doesn't show you the full details. You can get to the full page by choosing the "edit" option from the menu at the top. Alternatively, click on the corresponding flower after your watering session.)
carl_a 1 month ago
http://www.memrise.com/item...
Okay, so there seem to be a bunch of alternatives... I vividly remember getting it wrong though. The answer I recall using is on the list. So, either this is user error--there was a typo or something that I missed--or ? I'm subscribed to more than one word list. Is a given character definitely canonical? I guess what I'm asking is: can a given Unicode value or set of values (phrase) have more than one Memrise entry?
http://www.memrise.com/item...
Okay, so there seem to be a bunch of alternatives... I vividly remember getting it wrong though. The answer I recall using is on the list. So, either this is user error--there was a typo or something that I missed--or ? I'm subscribed to more than one word list. Is a given character definitely canonical? I guess what I'm asking is: can a given Unicode value or set of values (phrase) have more than one Memrise entry?
benwhately 1 month ago
There are still *some* duplicates in the database, but 上网 doesn't have duplicates in the main Mandarin topic - is that the one that you are learning? - ie are all of the wordlists that you are learning within the Mandarin topic, or are some of them in, for example, the "writing chinese" topic, or the "traditional mandarin" topic? Those topics are not so heavily-curated and it is possible that there are more duplicates and less acceptable alternative there.
Also, when did you get it wrong? perhaps the alternative has been added since you made the error? I added a bunch of alternatives to that a week or two ago.
The button for "that answer was correct" is one that we are planning to add in, but it is actually quite complex to do it in a slick way. We are working on it though and should have a solution soon.
Thanks
Ben
There are still *some* duplicates in the database, but 上网 doesn't have duplicates in the main Mandarin topic - is that the one that you are learning? - ie are all of the wordlists that you are learning within the Mandarin topic, or are some of them in, for example, the "writing chinese" topic, or the "traditional mandarin" topic? Those topics are not so heavily-curated and it is possible that there are more duplicates and less acceptable alternative there.
Also, when did you get it wrong? perhaps the alternative has been added since you made the error? I added a bunch of alternatives to that a week or two ago.
The button for "that answer was correct" is one that we are planning to add in, but it is actually quite complex to do it in a slick way. We are working on it though and should have a solution soon.
Thanks
Ben
carl_a 1 month ago
"I added a bunch of alternatives to that a week or two ago."
Perhaps that's it...is there a way to dump out all my tests so that I can grep through them?
"I added a bunch of alternatives to that a week or two ago."
Perhaps that's it...is there a way to dump out all my tests so that I can grep through them?
carl_a 1 month ago
Another thing:
Integrated Chinese Level 1 Part 1 Vocabulary
is the word list I care about. However, its not listed on the right sidebar when I view:
http://www.memrise.com/item...
?
Another thing:
Integrated Chinese Level 1 Part 1 Vocabulary
is the word list I care about. However, its not listed on the right sidebar when I view:
http://www.memrise.com/item...
?
benwhately 1 month ago
We could search through the logs for all your learning events, but it would be pretty time consuming, and those logs are only accesible to staff at the moment, so I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to give you a file to go through. So I think that if the error was a week or two ago then we can probably assume that that was the issue and that it has now been resolved. Does that sound ok?
Interesting that it doesn't list your wordlist as containing that item - which it does - I will check in to how those are listed. They don't seem to be an exhaustive list. Perhaps that should be made clearer.
Thanks
Ben
We could search through the logs for all your learning events, but it would be pretty time consuming, and those logs are only accesible to staff at the moment, so I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to give you a file to go through. So I think that if the error was a week or two ago then we can probably assume that that was the issue and that it has now been resolved. Does that sound ok?
Interesting that it doesn't list your wordlist as containing that item - which it does - I will check in to how those are listed. They don't seem to be an exhaustive list. Perhaps that should be made clearer.
Thanks
Ben
This is a question about Mandarin as much as it is about Memrise--although the two are related. Is there a fully authoritative reference for tones in Mandarin? I understand that as a language there are regional deviations. However, Memrise as far as I can tell has no mechanism for alternate pinyin like they do for English and written Chinese. This comes up because sometimes two-character words cause the second character to take on the 5th tone, when it doesn't as a single character. When spoken, these ambiguities are almost imperceptible. However, in the harsh light of Memrise testing, the system forces one to memorize it--and I wonder if that's a waste of time since the goal (presumably) is actually learning Chinese.
4 comments
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month ago
This is a good point - the convention that we follow, which has not yet been totally universally applied, is that in the pronunciation field the "dictionary" version should be written first - that is the version with the correct tone for each individual character. Then a semi colon, and then the spoken version, if it is different. This is also very important for cases where other tones change when put into combination. If you do come across cases where the "dictionary" form is not accepted, please start a discussion on that word pointing out the issue and we will fix it at once,
Thanks
Ben
This is a good point - the convention that we follow, which has not yet been totally universally applied, is that in the pronunciation field the "dictionary" version should be written first - that is the version with the correct tone for each individual character. Then a semi colon, and then the spoken version, if it is different. This is also very important for cases where other tones change when put into combination. If you do come across cases where the "dictionary" form is not accepted, please start a discussion on that word pointing out the issue and we will fix it at once,
Thanks
Ben
carl_a 1 month ago
Followup question: Does the PRC have an official dictionary? English dictionaries and domestic translation dictionaries are probably subject to copyright, which is possibly why you didn't name the specific one you refer to. If the PRC can simplify how a language is written, could they not specify how it is spoken? Again, I don't want to start a 'discussion' if there's already a correct answer.
Followup question: Does the PRC have an official dictionary? English dictionaries and domestic translation dictionaries are probably subject to copyright, which is possibly why you didn't name the specific one you refer to. If the PRC can simplify how a language is written, could they not specify how it is spoken? Again, I don't want to start a 'discussion' if there's already a correct answer.
benwhately 1 month ago
Another good question - I don't think that there is an "official" dictionary; not one that I have ever heard of at least. But I will check. There are a bunch of very widely used ones.
Sorry not to be clear - I wasn't in fact referring to a particular dictionary, but to the general convention in dictionaries to specify pronunciation according to the correct tones of each character, rather than to try to represent the tones as they are spoken. This is why I call that the "dictionary" version.
I think that they do this partly for simplicity of writing the entries, and partly for simplicity when looking up: the characters are listed in the order of the tones within each pronunciation, and this would be made extra painful if you had to work out whether they were applying the tone-change rules as well.
With regards to the government specifying how words are spoken; I think that that realise that they would be on a bit of a hiding to nowhere trying to do that!
Best wishes
Ben
Another good question - I don't think that there is an "official" dictionary; not one that I have ever heard of at least. But I will check. There are a bunch of very widely used ones.
Sorry not to be clear - I wasn't in fact referring to a particular dictionary, but to the general convention in dictionaries to specify pronunciation according to the correct tones of each character, rather than to try to represent the tones as they are spoken. This is why I call that the "dictionary" version.
I think that they do this partly for simplicity of writing the entries, and partly for simplicity when looking up: the characters are listed in the order of the tones within each pronunciation, and this would be made extra painful if you had to work out whether they were applying the tone-change rules as well.
With regards to the government specifying how words are spoken; I think that that realise that they would be on a bit of a hiding to nowhere trying to do that!
Best wishes
Ben
today I learned "dance" wu3 舞 but on the meaning presentation page the mandarin characters are in bold, and with the current font-size the character was literally just a black blob.
Fortunately I have firebug so I turned to to "normal" to be able to see it - and wow! is that a complex character.
Fortunately I have firebug so I turned to to "normal" to be able to see it - and wow! is that a complex character.
1 comment
Latest 1 month ago
Is there a way to include the vocabulary from my textbook's current lesson into the my garden? For instance, I would like my garden to include all the words from Lesson 19 of Integrated Chinese Level 1 Part 2. If I find those words online in say, Arch Chinese or MDBG, can I somehow set up a vocab list to use them?
Denise
Denise
1 comment
Latest 1 month ago
Pokemaster 1 month ago
You can set up your own course, and add all of those words on. If the textbook course wasn't created by you, then you can't edit it.
You can set up your own course, and add all of those words on. If the textbook course wasn't created by you, then you can't edit it.
There are some standards for "tone colors." I would like the option to never see tone marks or numbers, but instead to see tone colors. I think this would force me to learn which color is which tone and really read the tones more automatically. Anyways I'd like to try it.
1 comment
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month ago
This is a very good idea, and one that we have been planning to do for a long time. I have a personal problem with the colours as used on, eg mdbg.net, because they just don't work with my own ideas of what the colours should be. I have quite strong associations that I find really hard to over-ride. So we have been thinking about a way to let you select the colour you want... but that gets really complex really fast. So perhaps I will just have to swallow my personal difficulty with the colours used elsewhere.
I will see if we can do this soon,
Thanks
Ben
This is a very good idea, and one that we have been planning to do for a long time. I have a personal problem with the colours as used on, eg mdbg.net, because they just don't work with my own ideas of what the colours should be. I have quite strong associations that I find really hard to over-ride. So we have been thinking about a way to let you select the colour you want... but that gets really complex really fast. So perhaps I will just have to swallow my personal difficulty with the colours used elsewhere.
I will see if we can do this soon,
Thanks
Ben
There are many Characters which are almost soley used as surnames in Chinese. They have a variety of given definition formats though, for example:
郑 (surname) Zheng
刘 Liu
郭 a surname
I think perhaps the "(surname) name" format is most useful? There are a number of characters out there whose defninitions are simply "a surname", which I don't think is particularly helpful...
郑 (surname) Zheng
刘 Liu
郭 a surname
I think perhaps the "(surname) name" format is most useful? There are a number of characters out there whose defninitions are simply "a surname", which I don't think is particularly helpful...
5 comments
Latest 1 month ago
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
Very good point - I have just added a bunch of these over the last couple of days, so have been wrestling with this one. My current thinking is that the format: "a surname (write the surname here, but without tone number)" is good and clear. What do you think?
Thanks
Ben
Very good point - I have just added a bunch of these over the last couple of days, so have been wrestling with this one. My current thinking is that the format: "a surname (write the surname here, but without tone number)" is good and clear. What do you think?
Thanks
Ben
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
Very good point - I have just added a bunch of these over the last couple of days, so have been wrestling with this one. My current thinking is that the format: "a surname (write the surname here, but without tone number)" is good and clear. What do you think?
Thanks
Ben
Very good point - I have just added a bunch of these over the last couple of days, so have been wrestling with this one. My current thinking is that the format: "a surname (write the surname here, but without tone number)" is good and clear. What do you think?
Thanks
Ben
Azimuth 1 month, 1 week ago
I also think "surname X" is clear. Being pedantic, I would leave out the "a" - either the meaning is "surname X" or "a surname", not "a surname X".
I also think "surname X" is clear. Being pedantic, I would leave out the "a" - either the meaning is "surname X" or "a surname", not "a surname X".
r7ll 1 month ago
I agree with Azimuth. "surname X" is also the convention used by MDBG. Maybe have just "X" as an accepted alternative?
I agree with Azimuth. "surname X" is also the convention used by MDBG. Maybe have just "X" as an accepted alternative?
benwhately 1 month ago
OK, that sounds good. Lets edit them into that format. Much better than the "a surname" one, which doesn't really make sense, agreed!
THanks
Ben
OK, that sounds good. Lets edit them into that format. Much better than the "a surname" one, which doesn't really make sense, agreed!
THanks
Ben
Could there maybe be a test for writing characters?
I noticed that I can recognise characters but won't actually be able to write them, or only tell how they exactly look like.
If it is too hard to incorporate something to write/draw the character, maybe there could just be time to write it (on paper maybe) and then you could be asked if you did it right?
What do you think?
I noticed that I can recognise characters but won't actually be able to write them, or only tell how they exactly look like.
If it is too hard to incorporate something to write/draw the character, maybe there could just be time to write it (on paper maybe) and then you could be asked if you did it right?
What do you think?
2 comments
Latest 1 month ago
Pokemaster 1 month ago
Some websites do something like that- Memrise certainly could have a go at this.
Some websites do something like that- Memrise certainly could have a go at this.
dmheikin 1 month ago
Good idea to offer time, and/or giving test takers a choice of closely related characters to pick from.
Good idea to offer time, and/or giving test takers a choice of closely related characters to pick from.
I started to make my own Chinese course with the vocabulary from my textbook, but half way through adding words firefox died and so now there is a half finished course and I can't seem to figure out how to edit it. Could someone tell me if/how it is possible?
Thanks! =)
Thanks! =)
1 comment
Latest 1 month ago
Pokemaster 1 month ago
If you go on your course (so that it shows all of the words) and click Edit, then you can add more words.
If you go on your course (so that it shows all of the words) and click Edit, then you can add more words.
I read in FAQ this question. I'm a french speaker learning chinese in english ; Can I create mems in french for mandarin in the same time I create some in english and write them after those in english ?
4 comments
Latest 1 month, 1 week ago
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
This is a tricky question. Just to be certain: you want to keep learning int he main Mandarin topic, rather than to create a Mandarin - French topic. But you would sometimes like to add mems in French rather than English. I think that we should allow this, but at the moment you may find that people vote down mems in languages that they don't understand. We should add in a "tag" feature whereby you could tag your mem as being in a certain language, and then you could also select the tags that you wanted to view. This would also help with potentially offensive mems.
So yes, go ahead for now, and we will try to get a better solution to help you with this soon.
Thanks
Ben
This is a tricky question. Just to be certain: you want to keep learning int he main Mandarin topic, rather than to create a Mandarin - French topic. But you would sometimes like to add mems in French rather than English. I think that we should allow this, but at the moment you may find that people vote down mems in languages that they don't understand. We should add in a "tag" feature whereby you could tag your mem as being in a certain language, and then you could also select the tags that you wanted to view. This would also help with potentially offensive mems.
So yes, go ahead for now, and we will try to get a better solution to help you with this soon.
Thanks
Ben
pinto 1 month, 1 week ago
I want to keep learning mandarin in english cause all the memrise students learn in english, I like to feel that I belong to a group and that I don't study alone ; another point for me, it's a way to learn english too! This is one of the Memrise appeals.
But if it's possible, yes I would like to create a french-mandarin topic but I thought that I needed to know before a little mandarin ! do you think it's possible for me and useful for the others that I create this topic. So I will have to take the memrise mandarin -english vocabulary you teach us and translate it into french. But it seemed to me difficult.(I 'm going to experiment the creation of the topic. )
Otherwise,it would be pretty to have a tag for languages inside the box of mems. In this moment i do mems in english and after, in brackets I write "for frenchies" and I give the translation in french or sometimes another kind of mem in french.
Finally, I noticed that mother tongue is particularly useful for the pronunciation, more than for the meaning : the phonetic analogy comes naturally with french words.
Thank you for your answer and your beautiful work
I want to keep learning mandarin in english cause all the memrise students learn in english, I like to feel that I belong to a group and that I don't study alone ; another point for me, it's a way to learn english too! This is one of the Memrise appeals.
But if it's possible, yes I would like to create a french-mandarin topic but I thought that I needed to know before a little mandarin ! do you think it's possible for me and useful for the others that I create this topic. So I will have to take the memrise mandarin -english vocabulary you teach us and translate it into french. But it seemed to me difficult.(I 'm going to experiment the creation of the topic. )
Otherwise,it would be pretty to have a tag for languages inside the box of mems. In this moment i do mems in english and after, in brackets I write "for frenchies" and I give the translation in french or sometimes another kind of mem in french.
Finally, I noticed that mother tongue is particularly useful for the pronunciation, more than for the meaning : the phonetic analogy comes naturally with french words.
Thank you for your answer and your beautiful work
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
You can find the Mandarin - French topic here http://www.memrise.com/topi..., shall I make you a curator of that topic?
We will work on getting tags for the mems later on, but in the meantime I would push ahead with writing mems in French if you find those more useful.
And please let me know if any other ideas occur to you or if there is anything else I can do,
Best wishes
Ben
You can find the Mandarin - French topic here http://www.memrise.com/topi..., shall I make you a curator of that topic?
We will work on getting tags for the mems later on, but in the meantime I would push ahead with writing mems in French if you find those more useful.
And please let me know if any other ideas occur to you or if there is anything else I can do,
Best wishes
Ben
pinto 1 month, 1 week ago
Yes, I can help and promote this topic. I'm going to see it and think about mems in french.
thanks
Yes, I can help and promote this topic. I'm going to see it and think about mems in french.
thanks
I noticed that iI had ideas of mems while doing thes tests ; when I'm wrong, the good answer displays, i would like to create a mem in this moment cause i'm afraid to lose the idea but sometimes there is no possibility of activate a new mem on the board ; we have to begin a long procedure : for example, I wanted to create mem for the word "dao", I had to go to look for ben's word list, find the word in english, go to the specification shit of the word and create the mem.
Is there a function which would permit go directly to the word like in some good answers where it's possible on the moment ?
I met another difficulty, I wanted to correct my mem about "dao" cause mems from others mempals in the list helped me to understand better all the details of this word. But I was unable to find the way to correct my mem on the collective memboard, there is no possibility to activate the correction.
Perhaps I don't use already the functionalities well and it exists. But if not, is it possible to have this funcion which will permit ot go faster in the production-correction of a mem, when we meet it during the test.
thank you (sorry for my frenchie english)
Is there a function which would permit go directly to the word like in some good answers where it's possible on the moment ?
I met another difficulty, I wanted to correct my mem about "dao" cause mems from others mempals in the list helped me to understand better all the details of this word. But I was unable to find the way to correct my mem on the collective memboard, there is no possibility to activate the correction.
Perhaps I don't use already the functionalities well and it exists. But if not, is it possible to have this funcion which will permit ot go faster in the production-correction of a mem, when we meet it during the test.
thank you (sorry for my frenchie english)
4 comments
Latest 1 month, 1 week ago
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
Thanks very much for reporting this. You should definitely be able to create a new mem when you are presented with the correct answer after making a mistake - do you not see the "+" sign there? I will check that out at once.
Another way to get directly to the "word detail" page where you can add a mem or check out all the details of that word is by clicking on "edit" from the menu in the bar at the top of the screen - that should save you the work around of searching through the wordlists etc.
PLease let me know if I can be of any more help on that,
Best wishes
Ben
Thanks very much for reporting this. You should definitely be able to create a new mem when you are presented with the correct answer after making a mistake - do you not see the "+" sign there? I will check that out at once.
Another way to get directly to the "word detail" page where you can add a mem or check out all the details of that word is by clicking on "edit" from the menu in the bar at the top of the screen - that should save you the work around of searching through the wordlists etc.
PLease let me know if I can be of any more help on that,
Best wishes
Ben
pinto 1 month, 1 week ago
Thank you for your answer. Effectively, I went on "edit" to see the word detail. As I speak french, I thought the word "edit" meant like in french, "to publish" (that is to say to impress)! so it's a "false friend". Yes, I use the "+" to create a mem during the testing session.
But finally the true problem, I meet is as follows : I do "edit", I create a mem but it's impossible to correct it ; I meet the same problem on my personal mem list when I want to add something or correct my mem ; it seems to me that there's no way to correct . So I notice that we can do our corrections only during the learning session when we learn a new word and add a mem.
Have a fine week
Thank you for your answer. Effectively, I went on "edit" to see the word detail. As I speak french, I thought the word "edit" meant like in french, "to publish" (that is to say to impress)! so it's a "false friend". Yes, I use the "+" to create a mem during the testing session.
But finally the true problem, I meet is as follows : I do "edit", I create a mem but it's impossible to correct it ; I meet the same problem on my personal mem list when I want to add something or correct my mem ; it seems to me that there's no way to correct . So I notice that we can do our corrections only during the learning session when we learn a new word and add a mem.
Have a fine week
benwhately 1 month, 1 week ago
@pinto, you should be able to edit mems on the word detail page as well. It is possible that there is an issue with the auto refreshing. If you refresh the page, can you edit it then?
Best wishes
Ben
@pinto, you should be able to edit mems on the word detail page as well. It is possible that there is an issue with the auto refreshing. If you refresh the page, can you edit it then?
Best wishes
Ben
I started yesterday a discussion cause I had a problem to correct my mems on the memboard ; I see just now a little blue pencil which appears when crossing the word board; my question is lapsed. Did this function yet exist or is it new?
If it's new, a lot of thanks to Memrise
If it's new, a lot of thanks to Memrise
0 comments
2 comments
Latest 1 month, 1 week ago
Jeffec 1 month, 1 week ago
The official system to transcribe the Chinese characters into Latin script
The official system to transcribe the Chinese characters into Latin script
Hi, I played the excellent tone game a while ago, but can't find it anymore. Mind you, I only stumbled across it by chance.
1 comment
Latest 1 month, 2 weeks ago
Looking for some suggestions on the best way to create a memrise course to teach measure words.
27 comments
Latest 1 month, 2 weeks ago
kevin_shan 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I confess: I hate measure words. They just seem like random characters thrown into Chinese to confuse me. Unfortunately my 老师always corrects me whenever I use 个 for everything and native speakers seem confused when I use the wrong one. So I'm determined to get better at them early in my learning.I've found that learning measure words without the associated nouns doesn't help. In other words, if I practice 一支笔 (one pen) I seem to remember better than "measure word for stick-like things".It seems to me we could create such a course in Memrise by just creating examples of measure words in action. I'd like to start building my own course, but this strikes me as the kind of activity that would be best served as a group effort. 1. Anyone else interested in helping to build "Measure Word Mania"? Or should I plan on doing this on my own?2. Anyone have suggestions on the most efficient way to do this? We could, for instance, share a google Doc spreadsheet and then send it to Ben to upload instead of doing everything manually through the site. Or if there is a way to create a crowdsourced course in memrise we could opt for that.Beyond that, I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks!
I confess: I hate measure words. They just seem like random characters thrown into Chinese to confuse me. Unfortunately my 老师always corrects me whenever I use 个 for everything and native speakers seem confused when I use the wrong one. So I'm determined to get better at them early in my learning.I've found that learning measure words without the associated nouns doesn't help. In other words, if I practice 一支笔 (one pen) I seem to remember better than "measure word for stick-like things".It seems to me we could create such a course in Memrise by just creating examples of measure words in action. I'd like to start building my own course, but this strikes me as the kind of activity that would be best served as a group effort. 1. Anyone else interested in helping to build "Measure Word Mania"? Or should I plan on doing this on my own?2. Anyone have suggestions on the most efficient way to do this? We could, for instance, share a google Doc spreadsheet and then send it to Ben to upload instead of doing everything manually through the site. Or if there is a way to create a crowdsourced course in memrise we could opt for that.Beyond that, I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks!
Azimuth 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Sounds like a good idea for a course. Wikipedia has what looks like a helpful list, albeit with traditional and simplified character mixed in the 'Main Uses' column:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...Maybe an edited version of this could serve as the basis for a spreadsheet?One issue: most of these measure words will be in the memrise dictionary already, with primary meanings other than their role as measure words. So if the proposed course uses these existing words, the tests won't be for the relevant meanings. Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries.
Sounds like a good idea for a course. Wikipedia has what looks like a helpful list, albeit with traditional and simplified character mixed in the 'Main Uses' column:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...Maybe an edited version of this could serve as the basis for a spreadsheet?One issue: most of these measure words will be in the memrise dictionary already, with primary meanings other than their role as measure words. So if the proposed course uses these existing words, the tests won't be for the relevant meanings. Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries.
Azimuth 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Sounds like a good idea for a course. Wikipedia has what looks like a helpful list, albeit with traditional and simplified character mixed in the 'Main Uses' column:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...Maybe an edited version of this could serve as the basis for a spreadsheet?One issue: most of these measure words will be in the memrise dictionary already, with primary meanings other than their role as measure words. So if the proposed course uses these existing words, the tests won't be for the relevant meanings. Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries.
Sounds like a good idea for a course. Wikipedia has what looks like a helpful list, albeit with traditional and simplified character mixed in the 'Main Uses' column:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...Maybe an edited version of this could serve as the basis for a spreadsheet?One issue: most of these measure words will be in the memrise dictionary already, with primary meanings other than their role as measure words. So if the proposed course uses these existing words, the tests won't be for the relevant meanings. Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries.
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
"Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries."Exactly. "A table".We could also mix in other scenarios: 那张桌， "That table". We can crowdsource with this shared google doc spreadsheet: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...Anyone can edit who has the link. If you don't have a google docs account or can't see this link, this is what it looks like published on the web: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
"Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries."Exactly. "A table".We could also mix in other scenarios: 那张桌， "That table". We can crowdsource with this shared google doc spreadsheet: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...Anyone can edit who has the link. If you don't have a google docs account or can't see this link, this is what it looks like published on the web: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
"Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries."Exactly. "A table".We could also mix in other scenarios: 那张桌， "That table". We can crowdsource with this shared google doc spreadsheet: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...Anyone can edit who has the link. If you don't have a google docs account or can't see this link, this is what it looks like published on the web: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
"Do we then need to make new dictionary entries? In which case, are you proposing to create multiple new entries to the dictionary for each measure word+noun phrase? e.g. 张 zhāng would need: 一张桌子，一张纸，一张光盘 as separate entries."Exactly. "A table".We could also mix in other scenarios: 那张桌， "That table". We can crowdsource with this shared google doc spreadsheet: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...Anyone can edit who has the link. If you don't have a google docs account or can't see this link, this is what it looks like published on the web: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
This is an excellent idea. Really excellent. I am trying to think how I can help more than what you are doing already, which seems perfect. If you upload the spreadsheet with 20 or so words in it then we can get it up on the site and featured and that way we can get more people involved in editing and expanding it. One thing - in the "parent" columns, at the moment the only way to upload parents is by using their ids on the site - which you can find in the url of the item page; but that is pretty tedious way to make the spreadsheet. I would just upload word, definition and pinyin on the spreadsheet and then do the parents online. It shouldn't take long at all and everyone can help a bit.Let me know if I can do anything else!
This is an excellent idea. Really excellent. I am trying to think how I can help more than what you are doing already, which seems perfect. If you upload the spreadsheet with 20 or so words in it then we can get it up on the site and featured and that way we can get more people involved in editing and expanding it. One thing - in the "parent" columns, at the moment the only way to upload parents is by using their ids on the site - which you can find in the url of the item page; but that is pretty tedious way to make the spreadsheet. I would just upload word, definition and pinyin on the spreadsheet and then do the parents online. It shouldn't take long at all and everyone can help a bit.Let me know if I can do anything else!
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
This is an excellent idea. Really excellent. I am trying to think how I can help more than what you are doing already, which seems perfect. If you upload the spreadsheet with 20 or so words in it then we can get it up on the site and featured and that way we can get more people involved in editing and expanding it. One thing - in the "parent" columns, at the moment the only way to upload parents is by using their ids on the site - which you can find in the url of the item page; but that is pretty tedious way to make the spreadsheet. I would just upload word, definition and pinyin on the spreadsheet and then do the parents online. It shouldn't take long at all and everyone can help a bit.Let me know if I can do anything else!
This is an excellent idea. Really excellent. I am trying to think how I can help more than what you are doing already, which seems perfect. If you upload the spreadsheet with 20 or so words in it then we can get it up on the site and featured and that way we can get more people involved in editing and expanding it. One thing - in the "parent" columns, at the moment the only way to upload parents is by using their ids on the site - which you can find in the url of the item page; but that is pretty tedious way to make the spreadsheet. I would just upload word, definition and pinyin on the spreadsheet and then do the parents online. It shouldn't take long at all and everyone can help a bit.Let me know if I can do anything else!
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks Ben. One question:1. Can you make multiple people editors of a course? I guess I'm wondering if we need to continue using the Google Doc spreadsheet or if multiple people can add words once we get running. The nice part of the spreadsheet is that it is fast an anyone can enter, but it is a bit klunky to ask people to move out of Memrise to do it.
Thanks Ben. One question:1. Can you make multiple people editors of a course? I guess I'm wondering if we need to continue using the Google Doc spreadsheet or if multiple people can add words once we get running. The nice part of the spreadsheet is that it is fast an anyone can enter, but it is a bit klunky to ask people to move out of Memrise to do it.
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks Ben. One question:1. Can you make multiple people editors of a course? I guess I'm wondering if we need to continue using the Google Doc spreadsheet or if multiple people can add words once we get running. The nice part of the spreadsheet is that it is fast an anyone can enter, but it is a bit klunky to ask people to move out of Memrise to do it.
Thanks Ben. One question:1. Can you make multiple people editors of a course? I guess I'm wondering if we need to continue using the Google Doc spreadsheet or if multiple people can add words once we get running. The nice part of the spreadsheet is that it is fast an anyone can enter, but it is a bit klunky to ask people to move out of Memrise to do it.
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Updated Measure Word Mania, see http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan... or http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView if you can't use google docs.I took examples from Albert Wolfe's Chinese 24/7 book. I like his list because he pulls examples from situations he encountered with native speakers rather than academic sources. He has a list online at http://laowaichinese.net/which...**PLEASE HELP OUT** Just jump in and start adding examples. Go here: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
Updated Measure Word Mania, see http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan... or http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView if you can't use google docs.I took examples from Albert Wolfe's Chinese 24/7 book. I like his list because he pulls examples from situations he encountered with native speakers rather than academic sources. He has a list online at http://laowaichinese.net/which...**PLEASE HELP OUT** Just jump in and start adding examples. Go here: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Updated Measure Word Mania, see http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan... or http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView if you can't use google docs.I took examples from Albert Wolfe's Chinese 24/7 book. I like his list because he pulls examples from situations he encountered with native speakers rather than academic sources. He has a list online at http://laowaichinese.net/which...**PLEASE HELP OUT** Just jump in and start adding examples. Go here: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
Updated Measure Word Mania, see http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan... or http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView if you can't use google docs.I took examples from Albert Wolfe's Chinese 24/7 book. I like his list because he pulls examples from situations he encountered with native speakers rather than academic sources. He has a list online at http://laowaichinese.net/which...**PLEASE HELP OUT** Just jump in and start adding examples. Go here: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
We are working on a way to do this - at the moment I can make people curators and that *should* let the edit any list. We are building a better system, but that should work in the meantime.Let me know if people want to be added,Thanks!
We are working on a way to do this - at the moment I can make people curators and that *should* let the edit any list. We are building a better system, but that should work in the meantime.Let me know if people want to be added,Thanks!
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
We are working on a way to do this - at the moment I can make people curators and that *should* let the edit any list. We are building a better system, but that should work in the meantime.Let me know if people want to be added,Thanks!
We are working on a way to do this - at the moment I can make people curators and that *should* let the edit any list. We are building a better system, but that should work in the meantime.Let me know if people want to be added,Thanks!
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who has been adding Measure Words to the course. We're up to about 25.You can add more at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...View the full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease help out by adding a few more examples!You can pull some from Laowai Chinese, http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
Thanks everyone who has been adding Measure Words to the course. We're up to about 25.You can add more at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...View the full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease help out by adding a few more examples!You can pull some from Laowai Chinese, http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who has been adding Measure Words to the course. We're up to about 25.You can add more at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...View the full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease help out by adding a few more examples!You can pull some from Laowai Chinese, http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
Thanks everyone who has been adding Measure Words to the course. We're up to about 25.You can add more at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...View the full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease help out by adding a few more examples!You can pull some from Laowai Chinese, http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who added measure words! We're up to about 25 examples.Add words at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See the full list http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease take a few moments and add some you have encountered.Some good examples http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
Thanks everyone who added measure words! We're up to about 25 examples.Add words at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See the full list http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease take a few moments and add some you have encountered.Some good examples http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who added measure words! We're up to about 25 examples.Add words at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See the full list http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease take a few moments and add some you have encountered.Some good examples http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
Thanks everyone who added measure words! We're up to about 25 examples.Add words at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See the full list http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebViewPlease take a few moments and add some you have encountered.Some good examples http://laowaichinese.net/which... and http://laowaichinese.net/top-1...
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who helped out. I'm having a problem posting to the forums but we have about 50 entries now. See:Create mw examples: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
Thanks everyone who helped out. I'm having a problem posting to the forums but we have about 50 entries now. See:Create mw examples: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
kevin_shan 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks everyone who helped out. I'm having a problem posting to the forums but we have about 50 entries now. See:Create mw examples: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
Thanks everyone who helped out. I'm having a problem posting to the forums but we have about 50 entries now. See:Create mw examples: http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...See full list: http://kdewa.lt/MWManiaWebView
tom12ga 2 months, 1 week ago
I've found a fairly extensive list of measure words (classifiers) at the following link: (It truly reminds us of the path toward fluency.)http://digchinese.com/measure-...
I've found a fairly extensive list of measure words (classifiers) at the following link: (It truly reminds us of the path toward fluency.)http://digchinese.com/measure-...
kevin_shan 2 months, 1 week ago
Some of the links below are broken. To add words:http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
Some of the links below are broken. To add words:http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWordMan...
tom12ga 2 months, 1 week ago
Kevin, I added a few new ones, but while poking around, Wikipedia has what seems to be the catch-all list that you were seeking out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
Kevin, I added a few new ones, but while poking around, Wikipedia has what seems to be the catch-all list that you were seeking out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...
tom12ga 2 months, 1 week ago
Actually, Azimuth seems to have already posted the Wikipedia list...so, sorry for my repetition.
Actually, Azimuth seems to have already posted the Wikipedia list...so, sorry for my repetition.
kevin_shan 2 months ago
Ben,
It looks like we've got about 40-50 examples at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWord....
Can we go ahead and launch a course? Can you take this spreadsheet and upload?
What is the best way to continue adding new words? Should we keep building the spreadsheet or add directly through Memrise?
Ben,
It looks like we've got about 40-50 examples at http://kdewa.lt/MeasureWord....
Can we go ahead and launch a course? Can you take this spreadsheet and upload?
What is the best way to continue adding new words? Should we keep building the spreadsheet or add directly through Memrise?
benwhately 2 months ago
great! I have uploaded it here - http://www.memrise.com/set/... - let me know what you think. Kevin you will be able to add more words to it now, as will any topic curators. Let me know if you have any trouble or if anyone else would like to be a topic curator so that you can get involved.
Thanks!
Ben
great! I have uploaded it here - http://www.memrise.com/set/... - let me know what you think. Kevin you will be able to add more words to it now, as will any topic curators. Let me know if you have any trouble or if anyone else would like to be a topic curator so that you can get involved.
Thanks!
Ben
thedannywahl 1 month, 4 weeks ago
Awesome I can't use google docs, but I have a few more for you and a couple of corrections:
nagebeizi - not beizi a measure word
Are you sure that the 'zhi' for a chopstick is 'animal' and not 'long straight'?
-----
tao - for large appliances (bingxiang, kongtiao)
tiao - for long things (roads, noodles)
tong - for large container (1 tong shui3: drinking water ~5gallons) (yi tong jiyou - a can of gas (like 10L))
jia - for buildings (nei jia xaxue, yi jia canting)
Awesome I can't use google docs, but I have a few more for you and a couple of corrections:
nagebeizi - not beizi a measure word
Are you sure that the 'zhi' for a chopstick is 'animal' and not 'long straight'?
-----
tao - for large appliances (bingxiang, kongtiao)
tiao - for long things (roads, noodles)
tong - for large container (1 tong shui3: drinking water ~5gallons) (yi tong jiyou - a can of gas (like 10L))
jia - for buildings (nei jia xaxue, yi jia canting)
Azimuth 1 month, 2 weeks ago
@thedannywahl
I think I remember adding those examples to kevin_shan's list. Thanks for pointing out the errors.
Could you specify what's wrong with nàge bèizi? When referring to 'a cup of something', bèizi is clearly a measure word, but when talking about 'that cup', I thought that 个 was the measure word. Perhaps its use is optional? If it is a confusing case, maybe I should delete it.
I had put 只 for chopstick, as it is used for instances of 'one of a pair'; but I should have included 支 for long, thin objects as well. I've now added that as an alternative answer.
@thedannywahl
I think I remember adding those examples to kevin_shan's list. Thanks for pointing out the errors.
Could you specify what's wrong with nàge bèizi? When referring to 'a cup of something', bèizi is clearly a measure word, but when talking about 'that cup', I thought that 个 was the measure word. Perhaps its use is optional? If it is a confusing case, maybe I should delete it.
I had put 只 for chopstick, as it is used for instances of 'one of a pair'; but I should have included 支 for long, thin objects as well. I've now added that as an alternative answer.
I've come across the character 朿 as a building block in other characters a couple of times now, but so far I haven't come across any clues as to what it means. A search on MDBG gives the meaning "stab", pinyin ci4. However i haven't been able to find it through searching the memrise dictionary for both "ci4" and "stab".
Is this character missing from the mandarin database?
Is this character missing from the mandarin database?
6 comments
Latest 1 month, 3 weeks ago
benwhately 1 month, 3 weeks ago
Good spot, that one was missing. Now added. We will need to add it in as a "parent" item for any other characters that it appears in as well.
Thanks
Ben
Good spot, that one was missing. Now added. We will need to add it in as a "parent" item for any other characters that it appears in as well.
Thanks
Ben
r7ll 1 month, 3 weeks ago
Thanks for the speedy response, Ben. I was wondering though, is this perhaps something I could help with? I've come across quite a few characters that are still missing "parents", some with dubious english defnintions, some with incorrect sound files... I've been making a list of these to bring to the attention of you/curators in due course. However, I'd be more than happy to contibute some time into make these additions myself and addressing similar issues arising in the future.
Thanks for the speedy response, Ben. I was wondering though, is this perhaps something I could help with? I've come across quite a few characters that are still missing "parents", some with dubious english defnintions, some with incorrect sound files... I've been making a list of these to bring to the attention of you/curators in due course. However, I'd be more than happy to contibute some time into make these additions myself and addressing similar issues arising in the future.
benwhately 1 month, 3 weeks ago
That would be brilliant! I have given you the permissions so now you can add in the parent items wherever you need.
Thanks!
Ben
That would be brilliant! I have given you the permissions so now you can add in the parent items wherever you need.
Thanks!
Ben
r7ll 1 month, 3 weeks ago
Thanks! I'm making the edits now.
Sorry to bother you again, but I think I've found another building block word that doesn't seem to be appearing in the dictionary:
卂 - xin4 - to fly rapidly.
http://www.mdbg.net/chindic...
(apologies if adding words is something curators are supposed to be able to do - I couldn't work out how :-) )
Thanks! I'm making the edits now.
Sorry to bother you again, but I think I've found another building block word that doesn't seem to be appearing in the dictionary:
卂 - xin4 - to fly rapidly.
http://www.mdbg.net/chindic...
(apologies if adding words is something curators are supposed to be able to do - I couldn't work out how :-) )
benwhately 1 month, 3 weeks ago
I have added that - thanks! You can add words by adding them to one of your own wordlists. THat will add them to the wiki. Then you have to edit them to add pronunciation. That system is going to be improved very soon.
Thanks
Ben
I have added that - thanks! You can add words by adding them to one of your own wordlists. THat will add them to the wiki. Then you have to edit them to add pronunciation. That system is going to be improved very soon.
Thanks
Ben
benwhately 1 month, 3 weeks ago
I have added that - thanks! You can add words by adding them to one of your own wordlists. THat will add them to the wiki. Then you have to edit them to add pronunciation. That system is going to be improved very soon.
Thanks
Ben
I have added that - thanks! You can add words by adding them to one of your own wordlists. THat will add them to the wiki. Then you have to edit them to add pronunciation. That system is going to be improved very soon.
Thanks
Ben
I've discovered that if you are close to the pinyin on a word where it shows the answer as something like 'xing4; xing1'. Then in order to get the box to turn green you need to type 'xing4; xing1' instead of just 'xing4'. This is more frustrating when it presents 'qian2; qián' as the answer.
2 comments
Latest 1 month, 3 weeks ago
Metlx 1 month, 3 weeks ago
Just wondering, is there a way to have more pinyin exercises? I think it focuses too much on character recognition and meaning, but not the actual pronunciation (pinyin). I only get pinyin exercises when plants are ready to harvest. So for every character/word, only once.
Just wondering, is there a way to have more pinyin exercises? I think it focuses too much on character recognition and meaning, but not the actual pronunciation (pinyin). I only get pinyin exercises when plants are ready to harvest. So for every character/word, only once.
benwhately 1 month, 3 weeks ago
You will get only one pinyin question before harvest, but then you will find that once the plant is in your garden you will get more questions on the pinyin. Does that make sense?
Thanks and please let me know if you have any other questions,
Best wishes
Ben
You will get only one pinyin question before harvest, but then you will find that once the plant is in your garden you will get more questions on the pinyin. Does that make sense?
Thanks and please let me know if you have any other questions,
Best wishes
Ben
Would it be possible to add a "measure word" feature where you are tested on a word's measure word?
1 comment
Latest 2 months ago
Azimuth 2 months ago
That's a good idea. In the meantime, hopefully we can get kevin_shan's measure word list up and running.
http://www.memrise.com/thre...
That's a good idea. In the meantime, hopefully we can get kevin_shan's measure word list up and running.
http://www.memrise.com/thre...
Self-explanatory.
1 comment
Latest 2 months ago
Miatara 2 months ago
Maybe you are father along on the Chinese learning than I am, but I haven't been tested on writing the Hanzi (Chinese is Hanzi, Japanese is Konji). I've only been tested on remembering the English to the character, and the pinyin to the character.
Also, I know that for some of the characters there is a video that shows how to write the character (you can find it by clicking the "Show more" button when you learn a new word). I don't know if the video is there for every character because I started using a different program to learn the stroke order. If there isn't a video for each character, I recommend using another program to learn the stroke order as you learn new words through memrise. I've been doing this and it's really helped me learn the stroke order as I learn the new vocabulary. I've also been using the coloring system as I write to help myself remember the tones by using a red pen for first tone, orange for second, green for third, blue for fourth and black for the neutral fifth. It's really been helping me learn the tones as I practice writing the Hanzi. Anyway, hope this helps, good luck!
Maybe you are father along on the Chinese learning than I am, but I haven't been tested on writing the Hanzi (Chinese is Hanzi, Japanese is Konji). I've only been tested on remembering the English to the character, and the pinyin to the character.
Also, I know that for some of the characters there is a video that shows how to write the character (you can find it by clicking the "Show more" button when you learn a new word). I don't know if the video is there for every character because I started using a different program to learn the stroke order. If there isn't a video for each character, I recommend using another program to learn the stroke order as you learn new words through memrise. I've been doing this and it's really helped me learn the stroke order as I learn the new vocabulary. I've also been using the coloring system as I write to help myself remember the tones by using a red pen for first tone, orange for second, green for third, blue for fourth and black for the neutral fifth. It's really been helping me learn the tones as I practice writing the Hanzi. Anyway, hope this helps, good luck!
22 comments
Latest 2 months ago
bwkelley 2 months ago
The point is to introduce you to more variety in the scripts, since this these characters will have different "Fonts" in different places. It can only stregthen your ability to recognize the characters in different contexts.
The point is to introduce you to more variety in the scripts, since this these characters will have different "Fonts" in different places. It can only stregthen your ability to recognize the characters in different contexts.
testsiegerin 2 months ago
maybe that's right, but it's no fun for me anymore. and I learn this language just for fun. it is frustrating and confusing, if suddenly everything is different, sorry.
maybe that's right, but it's no fun for me anymore. and I learn this language just for fun. it is frustrating and confusing, if suddenly everything is different, sorry.
thedannywahl 2 months ago
@bwkelley: is that a true answer or is that just what you think it is? Because this seriously is throwing me off.
Basically the new font looks like crap and makes it extrememly hard to recognize characters.
@bwkelley: is that a true answer or is that just what you think it is? Because this seriously is throwing me off.
Basically the new font looks like crap and makes it extrememly hard to recognize characters.
SueK 2 months ago
I saw a discussion about needing this. I think it's a great learning tool that will help ensure I can read regardless of the font that may be used.
I saw a discussion about needing this. I think it's a great learning tool that will help ensure I can read regardless of the font that may be used.
tom12ga 2 months ago
I weighed in earlier in a separate discussion. Please try to put up with the frustration that you are experiencing, as it will be a huge bonus should you find yourself in China. The truth is the more font variants you are exposed to, the better your character comprehension will become.
I weighed in earlier in a separate discussion. Please try to put up with the frustration that you are experiencing, as it will be a huge bonus should you find yourself in China. The truth is the more font variants you are exposed to, the better your character comprehension will become.
johndalf 2 months ago
I understand the intent. However, the implementation does not help us learn. We never see the two representations together. Once I learn that I am "wrong again", I am corrected using the original font which I know quite well. This does not help me learn the new font.
I understand the intent. However, the implementation does not help us learn. We never see the two representations together. Once I learn that I am "wrong again", I am corrected using the original font which I know quite well. This does not help me learn the new font.
Kati. 2 months ago
I actually like the change. Sure the original one was prettier, but I was worried, that I would only learn how this character looked like in this one font. Will there be more fonts?
Thanks for addding this.
I actually like the change. Sure the original one was prettier, but I was worried, that I would only learn how this character looked like in this one font. Will there be more fonts?
Thanks for addding this.
Siani 2 months ago
It's thrown me, as well. I can see the advantages of getting used to different fonts (I looked at a real Chinese newspaper the other day, and have to say the font was more like the new one), but agree that "old" and "new" should be shown side by side.
It's thrown me, as well. I can see the advantages of getting used to different fonts (I looked at a real Chinese newspaper the other day, and have to say the font was more like the new one), but agree that "old" and "new" should be shown side by side.
mfgillia 2 months ago
No doubt its good for us who haven't been exposed to many fonts but the new mechanical one will never get on my favorite list.
No doubt its good for us who haven't been exposed to many fonts but the new mechanical one will never get on my favorite list.
tom12ga 2 months ago
All in all, I'm very pleased with this site as a learning tool. Try to remember, if we stayed in our "comfort zone" we won't make as much progress as when we are pushed to adapt. Our minds are very flexible, and I really feel that this is a good variable to increase our character recognition (over time).
All in all, I'm very pleased with this site as a learning tool. Try to remember, if we stayed in our "comfort zone" we won't make as much progress as when we are pushed to adapt. Our minds are very flexible, and I really feel that this is a good variable to increase our character recognition (over time).
jenniferhunter 2 months ago
Not sure if I like the new font - it seems that it was optimized for Japanese characters (hiragana and katakana) as opposed to chinese characters. Case in point - just look at the character for department or silk.
Second - I just did a search online for websites with simplified chinese text - ex: http://www.bbc.co.uk/zhongw.... I could recognize many of the characters on this page AND they don't look like the meiryo font rendering of these characters.
I also did a translation with babelfish - once again (hello / 你好) - the rendering of the images did not look like the meiryo font.
This website had more realistic fonts for the Chinese characters - http://www.chinese-learner..... Maybe memrise can use a variant of these fonts instead of the meiryo font?
Not sure if I like the new font - it seems that it was optimized for Japanese characters (hiragana and katakana) as opposed to chinese characters. Case in point - just look at the character for department or silk.
Second - I just did a search online for websites with simplified chinese text - ex: http://www.bbc.co.uk/zhongw.... I could recognize many of the characters on this page AND they don't look like the meiryo font rendering of these characters.
I also did a translation with babelfish - once again (hello / 你好) - the rendering of the images did not look like the meiryo font.
This website had more realistic fonts for the Chinese characters - http://www.chinese-learner..... Maybe memrise can use a variant of these fonts instead of the meiryo font?
jbessie 2 months ago
For initial learning, new vocabulary, etc., I really prefer the previous appearance--more classical, etc. Now things are sometimes so squished together I can't really make out what I'm looking at. Would prefer to master vocabulary in at least one appearance, then try to read different.
For initial learning, new vocabulary, etc., I really prefer the previous appearance--more classical, etc. Now things are sometimes so squished together I can't really make out what I'm looking at. Would prefer to master vocabulary in at least one appearance, then try to read different.
jbessie 2 months ago
I wonder if it's changed font, or just a browser problem. For the longest time, using Chrome and Firefox, the characters looked wrong; using Explorer, they looked right. Now in Explorer they appear wrong.
I wonder if it's changed font, or just a browser problem. For the longest time, using Chrome and Firefox, the characters looked wrong; using Explorer, they looked right. Now in Explorer they appear wrong.
jbessie 2 months ago
Well, for what it's worth, I downloaded and installed Opera, and although the character set now looks different, they're nolonger distorted (they are really distorted--not just different--with the other three browsers I tried).
Well, for what it's worth, I downloaded and installed Opera, and although the character set now looks different, they're nolonger distorted (they are really distorted--not just different--with the other three browsers I tried).
Corvus 2 months ago
I think "recognizing the characters in different fonts" should be added as a new level at the very end of the flash card chain, as opposed to randomly inserted as it is now.
1) That would make it less disarming or frustrating as people are just starting to learn the initial word.
2) While useful, this is not AS useful as knowing solidly what the character means in SOME font, that should be firmly established first.
3) You're never taught alternate character appearances, you just have to guess. Learners need a little foundation before they branch into these sorts of guessing games.
Right now the fonts are selected apparently randomly (I've seen mian4 guan3 use two different fonts in the same phrase!).
Just adding a little more order and predictability to when the new fonts appear could satisfy all the goals on BOTH sides of this argument.
I think "recognizing the characters in different fonts" should be added as a new level at the very end of the flash card chain, as opposed to randomly inserted as it is now.
1) That would make it less disarming or frustrating as people are just starting to learn the initial word.
2) While useful, this is not AS useful as knowing solidly what the character means in SOME font, that should be firmly established first.
3) You're never taught alternate character appearances, you just have to guess. Learners need a little foundation before they branch into these sorts of guessing games.
Right now the fonts are selected apparently randomly (I've seen mian4 guan3 use two different fonts in the same phrase!).
Just adding a little more order and predictability to when the new fonts appear could satisfy all the goals on BOTH sides of this argument.
patko 2 months ago
The old font was said to be too artistic by some, give me a break. I have been learning with that font from the start and I can read chinese characters on websites and tv series. This means the font is not at all too artistic and is a very good representation of real life fonts.
The new one however does not at all look like some of the signs. Try to look at "Silk" and your head will spin. Does not help at al.
But they are working on it so its gonna turn out just fine and anyone will be able to change to the font they like best.
The old font was said to be too artistic by some, give me a break. I have been learning with that font from the start and I can read chinese characters on websites and tv series. This means the font is not at all too artistic and is a very good representation of real life fonts.
The new one however does not at all look like some of the signs. Try to look at "Silk" and your head will spin. Does not help at al.
But they are working on it so its gonna turn out just fine and anyone will be able to change to the font they like best.
savoen 2 months ago
Thanks for returning to the old font! Makes studying so very nice again! You made my day!!!!
Thanks for returning to the old font! Makes studying so very nice again! You made my day!!!!
Most radicals are marked as "No pronouciation" but they actually have one (or more). Just to site a few, 艹 is cao3, 夂 is zhi3, etc. Wouldn't it nice to add these as well ?
3 comments
Latest 2 months ago
Azimuth 2 months ago
Sounds sensible to me - knowing those pronunciations helps with learning the pronunciation of characters 'built on' the radicals (well, sometimes it does...)
If there are no objections (might irritate people who've already learnt them), I'll change the ones you mentioned; if you know of others, leave a comment on their pages or post again here.
Sounds sensible to me - knowing those pronunciations helps with learning the pronunciation of characters 'built on' the radicals (well, sometimes it does...)
If there are no objections (might irritate people who've already learnt them), I'll change the ones you mentioned; if you know of others, leave a comment on their pages or post again here.
valdor 2 months ago
I usually find most of them on estroke. I'm not sure where to leave this as a comment on the different pages... Until then I'll post the one I stumble into here.
冫bing1
丨gun3
丬qiang2
I usually find most of them on estroke. I'm not sure where to leave this as a comment on the different pages... Until then I'll post the one I stumble into here.
冫bing1
丨gun3
丬qiang2
"Unfortunately, there was a problem - try refreshing or picking something different to learn. We'll do our best to fix this as soon as we possibly can. Sorry about this." It's been over 24 hours of this. Is it a known error?
2 comments
Latest 2 months ago
dr 2 months ago
Seems to be working now. Don't know if that's because of my comment or what, but thanks.
Seems to be working now. Don't know if that's because of my comment or what, but thanks.
看 to look kan4 verb
看 to look after kan1 verb
I am constantly being tested on these and I have a 50% chance of failing because if I put to look after when it's to look, it fails and vice-versa. Also on another list this character is "to look at".
看 to look after kan1 verb
I am constantly being tested on these and I have a 50% chance of failing because if I put to look after when it's to look, it fails and vice-versa. Also on another list this character is "to look at".
3 comments
Latest 2 months ago
tom12ga 2 months ago
I looked both up in the Mandarin dictionary...and while Chinese characters can often be context specific, you are right that they need to do something to level the field here.
I looked both up in the Mandarin dictionary...and while Chinese characters can often be context specific, you are right that they need to do something to level the field here.
Just found that the video on how to write 犭 was wrong. Please check the link for 狗 (gou3) http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/Z...
Sorry for being so critical. But the order of writing the characters is one of most important part of learning Chinese. As is a calligrapher myself I changed the order sometimes, however, it should be taught correctly in the beginning.
Sorry for being so critical. But the order of writing the characters is one of most important part of learning Chinese. As is a calligrapher myself I changed the order sometimes, however, it should be taught correctly in the beginning.
1 comment
Latest 2 months ago
tom12ga 2 months ago
I see that you've attempted to ask a lot of good questions as well as make observations. (However, I didn't see anyone responding to most of your postings.) I think that you'll find that some of these "characters" are actually just radicals...so they may not exist as a unique character, but instead are meant to become character building blocks...which are what in fact radicals are.
I see that you've attempted to ask a lot of good questions as well as make observations. (However, I didn't see anyone responding to most of your postings.) I think that you'll find that some of these "characters" are actually just radicals...so they may not exist as a unique character, but instead are meant to become character building blocks...which are what in fact radicals are.
We have two courses to memorise the Kangxi radicals. both have 214 radicals but which one is correct? Or am I uninformed and are there more than one version of Kangxi's 214 radicals. If it helps I live in Beijing and would probably prefer the system used in PRC.
Thanks!
Thanks!
0 comments
What is the intended purpose of the "Mandarin alternatives" field? I would think that this is meant for tests in which the English word is given, and the user must enter the pinyin or the character. For example, the test might say "white". And the system should accept "bai2" or "bai2 se4" if it is a pinyin test and 白 or 白色 if it is a character test.
If that is the purpose of this field, does that mean that we should be putting both pinyin and characters in this field?
Or am I totally missing the point?
If that is the purpose of this field, does that mean that we should be putting both pinyin and characters in this field?
Or am I totally missing the point?
0 comments
I recently created my first word list. First, I'd like to say that I am very impressed with the interface. It certainly feels like a lot of effort has gone into making the process very smooth. However, I do have two suggestions that might make it even better.
First, it would be great if the search results could take into consideration the frequency of use. Frequently I would type the pinyin for a syllable and there would be several less frequent characters displayed first. Sometimes the character I wanted wasn't even visible and I had to also search by typing in the English.
Second, when creating new words, it should be possible to enter the pinyin when adding the word to the list. The existing words are shown in the format "character (pinyin)". For example, "花 (hua1)". If I enter a new word in that format, then the system should parse out the pinyin.
Keep up the good work!
First, it would be great if the search results could take into consideration the frequency of use. Frequently I would type the pinyin for a syllable and there would be several less frequent characters displayed first. Sometimes the character I wanted wasn't even visible and I had to also search by typing in the English.
Second, when creating new words, it should be possible to enter the pinyin when adding the word to the list. The existing words are shown in the format "character (pinyin)". For example, "花 (hua1)". If I enter a new word in that format, then the system should parse out the pinyin.
Keep up the good work!
0 comments
Now it's set up that when you get the pinyin wrong you get shown a list of characters that the character could easily be confused with, but the character's pinyin isn't drawn anywhere so you still don't know what the pinyin is.
0 comments
Previously in these discussions, people have said that they'd like certain words clearer as to whether we are learning a noun or a verb, as sometimes you can type either "to stretch" or just "stretch" for example and still get the word correct, but other times if you miss out the "to" you get the answer 'nearly' right, and there are certainly many English words which are constructed the same when used as a verb or as a noun
So now you've introduced a little pointer during the test as to what part of speech it is. This is great on the one hand, but is there a way to have this on only during the learning of the word, to (manually or otherwise) switch it off for the testing? Or have it apply only when there could be confusion? I find, first of all, that it makes it easier to get the word right - if it's something you're not quite sure of, by being told it's a verb, say, that narrows it down to what the answer is, which seems to slightly defeat the purpose of being tested at all; and secondly, several of them seemed to be incorrect. I've cleverly gone and forgotten specific examples, but there were certainly times during the test when I thought "that's definitely an adjective, not a noun!". Furthermore, several of the words which I have learnt as obviously being a verb (we are taught the infinitive), such as "to remember", came up in the test as "noun; verb". Surely "remember" is never a noun? The noun is memory, or remembrance, I'd have thought. Is it the case that in Mandarin the same character is used in different contexts, both as a noun and as a verb? In which case, when the word is initially being learned, could it be made clear that the word means both "to remember" and "remembrance"? That way, you could type either response during the test and get it right.
I hope my query is clear, sorry for rambling as usual!
Any help in the matter much appreciated :o)
So now you've introduced a little pointer during the test as to what part of speech it is. This is great on the one hand, but is there a way to have this on only during the learning of the word, to (manually or otherwise) switch it off for the testing? Or have it apply only when there could be confusion? I find, first of all, that it makes it easier to get the word right - if it's something you're not quite sure of, by being told it's a verb, say, that narrows it down to what the answer is, which seems to slightly defeat the purpose of being tested at all; and secondly, several of them seemed to be incorrect. I've cleverly gone and forgotten specific examples, but there were certainly times during the test when I thought "that's definitely an adjective, not a noun!". Furthermore, several of the words which I have learnt as obviously being a verb (we are taught the infinitive), such as "to remember", came up in the test as "noun; verb". Surely "remember" is never a noun? The noun is memory, or remembrance, I'd have thought. Is it the case that in Mandarin the same character is used in different contexts, both as a noun and as a verb? In which case, when the word is initially being learned, could it be made clear that the word means both "to remember" and "remembrance"? That way, you could type either response during the test and get it right.
I hope my query is clear, sorry for rambling as usual!
Any help in the matter much appreciated :o)
0 comments
Is there a way to choose the order in which you learn the words of a wordlist? For example, I'm using Integrated Chinese, and I'd like to use this wordlist that is already made (http://www.memrise.com/set/...), but the vocab doesn't seem to go in the order of textbook. Is there a way to order it? Or would I have to create a whole new wordlist?
Thanks!
Thanks!
0 comments
Seems like this is a significant problem, as far as how to test.
I think a good solution needs two characteristics:
1. Not flag correct answers as incorrect (e.g. quizzing 行 - don't flag "ok" as incorrect just because you were looking for "profession")
2. Also ensure that the full range of definitions get exercised (same example, don't let the user just enter "ok" and never "profession")
The simplest way I can think of to do this is much like what happens when one types the correct pinyin when Memrise is actually asking for the definition. Something to the effect of "Right, but we were thinking of another meaning that you've learned for this character. Try again."
The system could keep track of the two (or more) meanings like separate words, but just needs to be smart enough to realize when the user gives a correct answer other than the one it was trying to quiz.
Maybe not elegant, but this would be a big improvement as far as I'm concerned. Anything to put an end to endless quizzing of 看，行，星 and others where I get marked wrong at random because Memrise wants the other definition.
I think a good solution needs two characteristics:
1. Not flag correct answers as incorrect (e.g. quizzing 行 - don't flag "ok" as incorrect just because you were looking for "profession")
2. Also ensure that the full range of definitions get exercised (same example, don't let the user just enter "ok" and never "profession")
The simplest way I can think of to do this is much like what happens when one types the correct pinyin when Memrise is actually asking for the definition. Something to the effect of "Right, but we were thinking of another meaning that you've learned for this character. Try again."
The system could keep track of the two (or more) meanings like separate words, but just needs to be smart enough to realize when the user gives a correct answer other than the one it was trying to quiz.
Maybe not elegant, but this would be a big improvement as far as I'm concerned. Anything to put an end to endless quizzing of 看，行，星 and others where I get marked wrong at random because Memrise wants the other definition.
0 comments
I'm pretty sure this is on the team's list, but I just wanted to make sure: it'd be useful if we were able to view all mems (not just pronunciation ones) after getting a pronunciation test wrong. This is because getting the pronunciation wrong is sometimes due to forgetting the entire meaning of the character, not just how to pronounce it, and opening up the edit page isn't convenient for viewing mems. Perhaps this could be done via the 'show more' button, as it is true that a lot of the time, you'll just want to see the mems for pronunciation.
0 comments
I've been trying several of the Chinese courses but they all have questions requiring answers in traditional/simplified characters. I'm a beginner and write now just working with Pinyin. I know about 1000 words in Pinyin but only a few characters. Is there a way to build a course using just English/Pinyin or to use current courses and skip the characters. There is a drop-down that allows me to skip Pinyin but that' the opposite of what I need. Thanks.
0 comments
I see this sequence happen quite often. It seems backwards because I am shown the pinyin on the overview 'page' and then asked to write the pinyin in the next 'page'. I'm using 3 learning sets now and it happens with them all.
1. See Chinese character and answer with correct english meaning
2. Shown overview 'page' of that character including the definition with pinyin
3. Asked to write the pinyin for that same character
Should this be happening?
1. See Chinese character and answer with correct english meaning
2. Shown overview 'page' of that character including the definition with pinyin
3. Asked to write the pinyin for that same character
Should this be happening?
0 comments
I just created a new lesson but a friend can't find it. How long does it take for others to find a new course?
0 comments
Hi, I noticed that some people use the New Practical Chinese Reader, just as I am but I found all words are added per chapter which I find annoying. A created a set with all the words (text and character writing) from the first five chapters, as well as the first five chapters of another book I use, "Experiencing Chinese - living in China". Hope anyone else finds this useful. Set can be found here: http://www.memrise.com/set/...
I am planning on adding chapter 6-10 next.
I am planning on adding chapter 6-10 next.
0 comments
When I try to search for 为 in the dictionary, I can't find it by using pinyin, but I can by entering the character; but entering the characters for 功伟, for example, doesn't get the desired result. Is the dictionary currently for English and single-character searches? That's enough for 90% of what I use it for, but I just thought I'd check.
0 comments
Hello All! I am technically working from the Mandarin (traditional) category but felt it appropriate to bring the question to a more lively section. I have been setting up word lists for my classmates at ICLP in Taibei and am wondering about methods for adding additional words with new lessons. Should I continue adding words to the same list (potentially forcing people who join late to run through 165+ vocab from previous lesson), or do I create a new word set for each lesson, which general will run about 100+ words a piece.
Thank you for your thoughts and time!
Thank you for your thoughts and time!
0 comments
I have a Chinese book called Colloquial Chinese by Kan Qian but when I created a new course and started adding words I found that some words, and even some characters (?) didn't exist in the system.
Many of the character combinations mean different things according to memrise than stated in the book, and some character combinations don't even exist.
Is there possible to add new words? I would gladly send a list of all Mandarin words (with English translation) that I can't find, or has a different translation in the book.
Many of the character combinations mean different things according to memrise than stated in the book, and some character combinations don't even exist.
Is there possible to add new words? I would gladly send a list of all Mandarin words (with English translation) that I can't find, or has a different translation in the book.
0 comments
It looks like I always get the same set of 49 characters to learn when I'm watering the plants many times in a row.
I think I get a different set the next day or maybe after some hours (I'm not sure when the set changes).
The characters in the set are tested in random order.
Maybe I broke the algorithm which decides which words to test by the way I'm learning? My plants are healthy for weeks and even months.
Thanks.
I think I get a different set the next day or maybe after some hours (I'm not sure when the set changes).
The characters in the set are tested in random order.
Maybe I broke the algorithm which decides which words to test by the way I'm learning? My plants are healthy for weeks and even months.
Thanks.
0 comments
I have about 18 words stuck in my garden. No timers appear. I can't sprout them and I can't harvest them. They appear to have gotten stuck there after I missed a harvest. Is there any way to reset the words?
0 comments
I see a lot of terms that are in these "Flexible Uploading" sets; their parents are often missing or poorly assigned. What is the source of these terms?
0 comments
There is a proposal on stack Exchange for a new Chinese Language forum. If you are not familiar with the Stack websites they make excellent question and answer websites.
If you are interested check it out: http://area51.stackexchange...
If you are interested check it out: http://area51.stackexchange...
0 comments
The numbers refer to the "tone" with which the word is spoken. There are five distinct tones in Mandarin - a high level tone, a rising tone, a falling-then-rising tone, a falling tone and a neutral tone. These can either be denoted by lines above the letters - eg xǐ shǒu jiān - or they can be denoted by a number. The convention is that the tones are numbered as follows:
1 - high level tone
2 - rising tone
3 - falling-then-rising tone
4 - falling tone
5 - neutral tone
For more on this, and an explanation of why Memrise uses the number notation rather than the lines, take a look at these blog posts:
[some thoughts on Chinese tones](http://blog.memrise.com/2011/09/some-thoughts-on-chinese-tones.html#disqus_thread)
[How to Think About the Tones in Mandarin](http://blog.memrise.com/2011/01/how-to-think-about-tones-in-mandarin.html)
1 - high level tone
2 - rising tone
3 - falling-then-rising tone
4 - falling tone
5 - neutral tone
For more on this, and an explanation of why Memrise uses the number notation rather than the lines, take a look at these blog posts:
[some thoughts on Chinese tones](http://blog.memrise.com/2011/09/some-thoughts-on-chinese-tones.html#disqus_thread)
[How to Think About the Tones in Mandarin](http://blog.memrise.com/2011/01/how-to-think-about-tones-in-mandarin.html)
0 comments
I have ended up with 1200 plants in my garden and have no problem remembering the English meanings. Now I am being tested on the pinyin and tones, I can remember the pinyin quite well but really struggle with the tones, meaning I constantly have 200-300 plants to water, which I am still not remembering the tones. I have turned off the pronunciation now, but was wondering if there was a way to test the pinyin without the tones?
4 comments
Latest 2 months, 1 week ago
r7ll 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm not sure how that would be useful. Without the tones, the pinyin don't have any meaning. The tones are fundamental to the spoken language...
I'm not sure how that would be useful. Without the tones, the pinyin don't have any meaning. The tones are fundamental to the spoken language...
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
The tones are really tricky to remember, no question; actually I think that it is a weakness of pinyin as a learning tool that it categorises tones like this, whereas other romanization systems (eg Gwoyeu Romatzyh) use spelling to differentiate the different ways of pronouncing words. But pinyin is basically essential for typing Chinese, so that is the one that needs to be learned. We are experimenting with different ways of testing full sentences in Chinese at the moment. One option is to present a cue (which might be an english sentence, or a picture, or a question in Chinese or English) and then ask you to type the answer in Chinese. Since this would require you to have your pinyin input system turned on, it would effectively be asking you to type in pinyin but without tones. If we do this then you could stop learning the pinyin on individual characters if you wanted and focus on learning the full sentences. It *might* actually turn out that as long as you work hard on pronouncing the full sentences correctly, that you actually end up getting the pronunciation better than if you know the pinyin of each individual character, but not how they sound when put together. That said, it would be good to also give better tools and testing for helping you to remember the tones, and we are going to be doing this over the coming months.Thanks very much for the feedback,Best wishesBen
The tones are really tricky to remember, no question; actually I think that it is a weakness of pinyin as a learning tool that it categorises tones like this, whereas other romanization systems (eg Gwoyeu Romatzyh) use spelling to differentiate the different ways of pronouncing words. But pinyin is basically essential for typing Chinese, so that is the one that needs to be learned. We are experimenting with different ways of testing full sentences in Chinese at the moment. One option is to present a cue (which might be an english sentence, or a picture, or a question in Chinese or English) and then ask you to type the answer in Chinese. Since this would require you to have your pinyin input system turned on, it would effectively be asking you to type in pinyin but without tones. If we do this then you could stop learning the pinyin on individual characters if you wanted and focus on learning the full sentences. It *might* actually turn out that as long as you work hard on pronouncing the full sentences correctly, that you actually end up getting the pronunciation better than if you know the pinyin of each individual character, but not how they sound when put together. That said, it would be good to also give better tools and testing for helping you to remember the tones, and we are going to be doing this over the coming months.Thanks very much for the feedback,Best wishesBen
Azimuth 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Have you tried associating the tones with an element that can be incorporated into your mems? I use colour (tone 1=green, 2=blue, 3=red, 4=black, 5=grey/transparent), emotions (calm, questioning, etc) and physical movements (lateral, rising, etc). Or you can use geography: imagine your mem on level ground, a steep rising slope, in a deep valley, or sliding down a hill. These can easily be added to mems, and when you picture the scene in your head, it will reveal the tone. I haven't included the colours in my mems yet because other people use different colour schemes - if we all used the same ones it'd be great.
Have you tried associating the tones with an element that can be incorporated into your mems? I use colour (tone 1=green, 2=blue, 3=red, 4=black, 5=grey/transparent), emotions (calm, questioning, etc) and physical movements (lateral, rising, etc). Or you can use geography: imagine your mem on level ground, a steep rising slope, in a deep valley, or sliding down a hill. These can easily be added to mems, and when you picture the scene in your head, it will reveal the tone. I haven't included the colours in my mems yet because other people use different colour schemes - if we all used the same ones it'd be great.
mfgillia 2 months, 1 week ago
Unless you have reached a very high level where your tones are unconsciously done correctly and understood by native speakers, its probably a much better idea to spend most of your time really learning the tones of those 200 to 300 plants you struggle with versus avoiding them. This is after all Chinese - tones are in integral part of distinguishing between different words otherwise written the same in pinyin.
Unless you have reached a very high level where your tones are unconsciously done correctly and understood by native speakers, its probably a much better idea to spend most of your time really learning the tones of those 200 to 300 plants you struggle with versus avoiding them. This is after all Chinese - tones are in integral part of distinguishing between different words otherwise written the same in pinyin.
Hey,
I have just finished the "Survival Mandarin" course and fully understand all of the characters involved. Can anyone suggest which course I should now progress to?
Simon
P.S
To editors/creators, it would be wonderful if you could mark out a suggested order for the courses to be learnt in.
I have just finished the "Survival Mandarin" course and fully understand all of the characters involved. Can anyone suggest which course I should now progress to?
Simon
P.S
To editors/creators, it would be wonderful if you could mark out a suggested order for the courses to be learnt in.
7 comments
Latest 2 months, 1 week ago
davorak 3 months ago
I suggest Restaurant Survival. Mostly because it feels good to finish a deck and it is not too large like mandarin comprehensive. I also choose it because it seemed like I would have more chances to use it in my live.
I suggest Restaurant Survival. Mostly because it feels good to finish a deck and it is not too large like mandarin comprehensive. I also choose it because it seemed like I would have more chances to use it in my live.
davorak 3 months ago
I suggest Restaurant Survival. Mostly because it feels good to finish a deck and it is not too large like mandarin comprehensive. I also choose it because it seemed like I would have more chances to use it in my live.
I suggest Restaurant Survival. Mostly because it feels good to finish a deck and it is not too large like mandarin comprehensive. I also choose it because it seemed like I would have more chances to use it in my live.
spatulaofdoom 2 months, 4 weeks ago
I'm in a similar situation to you, and have decided to go through the HSK courses. HSK is the Chinese standard tests for mandarin proficiency, so I figure it'll be a good route to take.
I'm in a similar situation to you, and have decided to go through the HSK courses. HSK is the Chinese standard tests for mandarin proficiency, so I figure it'll be a good route to take.
spatulaofdoom 2 months, 4 weeks ago
I'm in a similar situation to you, and have decided to go through the HSK courses. HSK is the Chinese standard tests for mandarin proficiency, so I figure it'll be a good route to take.
I'm in a similar situation to you, and have decided to go through the HSK courses. HSK is the Chinese standard tests for mandarin proficiency, so I figure it'll be a good route to take.
mikedufty 2 months, 1 week ago
I started on comprehensive, and experimented with my own word lists, but just recently started the HSK 1 and am finding that more rewarding than just doing comprehensive as it gets to the more useful words quicker, particularly learning more characters for words I already know the meaning of. If you go to the mandarin course choice page it does have featured courses at the top, which is how I chose HSK.
I started on comprehensive, and experimented with my own word lists, but just recently started the HSK 1 and am finding that more rewarding than just doing comprehensive as it gets to the more useful words quicker, particularly learning more characters for words I already know the meaning of. If you go to the mandarin course choice page it does have featured courses at the top, which is how I chose HSK.
FluffyBearBoy 2 months, 1 week ago
Just go with "Introductory Mandarin (HSK level 1)" and afterwards go with HSK2.
Just go with "Introductory Mandarin (HSK level 1)" and afterwards go with HSK2.
tom12ga 2 months, 1 week ago
What does the OP hope to do with their language skill set as it evolves? Knocking down one or more of the HSK certifications could prove beneficial in the job market.
What does the OP hope to do with their language skill set as it evolves? Knocking down one or more of the HSK certifications could prove beneficial in the job market.
OK, I fear this is going to be a really stupid question - but here goes.
Does Memrise test you for pinyin w/tones?
I've been on Memrise for 2+ weeks/15 words a day and never been tested on the pinyin, only on the english.
My husband, who just started Memrise mandarin survival last week, was saying today that he is being tested on the proper pinyin and tones....??? I was like, what? I've always only been test on the english for each character.
So what am I doing wrong? I searched in settings but didn't find anything...
Sorry if this is a really stupid question. Was almost afraid to ask! Looked through the forum and didn't see anyone else that had asked it.... so here it is.
And on another note... is there a way to search the forum to see if the question has already been asked? I couldn't find a search function.
Thank you!
Does Memrise test you for pinyin w/tones?
I've been on Memrise for 2+ weeks/15 words a day and never been tested on the pinyin, only on the english.
My husband, who just started Memrise mandarin survival last week, was saying today that he is being tested on the proper pinyin and tones....??? I was like, what? I've always only been test on the english for each character.
So what am I doing wrong? I searched in settings but didn't find anything...
Sorry if this is a really stupid question. Was almost afraid to ask! Looked through the forum and didn't see anyone else that had asked it.... so here it is.
And on another note... is there a way to search the forum to see if the question has already been asked? I couldn't find a search function.
Thank you!
4 comments
Latest 2 months, 1 week ago
FluffyBearBoy 2 months, 1 week ago
Yes, when I 'water' my plants it tests me for pinyin and tones :) So do not worry this functionality (feature) exists! :)
Yes, when I 'water' my plants it tests me for pinyin and tones :) So do not worry this functionality (feature) exists! :)
bjnsharp 2 months, 1 week ago
You have to get the English meanings correct consistently then it will start asking the pinyin/tone instead.
You have to get the English meanings correct consistently then it will start asking the pinyin/tone instead.
benwhately 2 months, 1 week ago
Hi, I just checked your settings and you were indeed set up to "skip pinyin" - which is the setting that stops you from getting pinyin tests. You see this option in the top menu during a learning session. I have set it now so that you will now get the pinyin questions. Sorry for the confusion!Best wishesBen
Hi, I just checked your settings and you were indeed set up to "skip pinyin" - which is the setting that stops you from getting pinyin tests. You see this option in the top menu during a learning session. I have set it now so that you will now get the pinyin questions. Sorry for the confusion!Best wishesBen
ingridjones 2 months, 1 week ago
Thanks so much Ben! I knew there had to be something that wasn't set right but couldn't figure it out on my own. Now i'm going to get slammed when it comes to testing :-)
Thanks so much Ben! I knew there had to be something that wasn't set right but couldn't figure it out on my own. Now i'm going to get slammed when it comes to testing :-)
A lot of words have "xing" as a part of speech. What does this mean?
9 comments
Latest 2 months, 1 week ago
jillanne 2 months, 2 weeks ago
This is my question, too! I feel like it ought to be completely obvious, but I am just not figuring it out. It looks like this:
This is my question, too! I feel like it ought to be completely obvious, but I am just not figuring it out. It looks like this:
jillanne 2 months, 2 weeks ago
This is my question, too! I feel like it ought to be completely obvious, but I am just not figuring it out. It looks like this:
This is my question, too! I feel like it ought to be completely obvious, but I am just not figuring it out. It looks like this:
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know and I can't find any reference to this as a part of speech. I suspect that it might be an error that has been imported and might be an abbreviation for 词性 (ci2 xing4) meaning "part of speech". If you could make a note when you see this, then I will remove them, unless anyone knows of a reason to keep them?Thanks and apologies for the inconvenience!Ben
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know and I can't find any reference to this as a part of speech. I suspect that it might be an error that has been imported and might be an abbreviation for 词性 (ci2 xing4) meaning "part of speech". If you could make a note when you see this, then I will remove them, unless anyone knows of a reason to keep them?Thanks and apologies for the inconvenience!Ben
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know and I can't find any reference to this as a part of speech. I suspect that it might be an error that has been imported and might be an abbreviation for 词性 (ci2 xing4) meaning "part of speech". If you could make a note when you see this, then I will remove them, unless anyone knows of a reason to keep them?Thanks and apologies for the inconvenience!Ben
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know and I can't find any reference to this as a part of speech. I suspect that it might be an error that has been imported and might be an abbreviation for 词性 (ci2 xing4) meaning "part of speech". If you could make a note when you see this, then I will remove them, unless anyone knows of a reason to keep them?Thanks and apologies for the inconvenience!Ben
jillanne 2 months, 1 week ago
No problem. What do you mean, "Make a note"? I mean, what is the best way for me to flag occurrences so that you can follow up in the future? Also, I don't know how well the information within the system is linked. If you catch it on one 好, do you catch it on all of them? How attentive should I be? Thanks, really, for all of your hard work. I can see regular additions and changes every time I get on. That is impressive.
No problem. What do you mean, "Make a note"? I mean, what is the best way for me to flag occurrences so that you can follow up in the future? Also, I don't know how well the information within the system is linked. If you catch it on one 好, do you catch it on all of them? How attentive should I be? Thanks, really, for all of your hard work. I can see regular additions and changes every time I get on. That is impressive.
benwhately 2 months, 1 week ago
The way to "make a note" is to go to the "item details page" - this is the page which has all of the information about a given word and also the comments threads associated with it. To get there you can either click "edit" from the menu bar at the top of the screen when you are in a learning session, or click on a word in the "course" or "garden" view. The items in each wordset are all taken from the same central database. So if we correct one version of "hao", then that correction will come up in every wordset where that appears (not *quite* true - there are a few duplicates in the database, but we are removing them).Thanks very much and best wishesBen
The way to "make a note" is to go to the "item details page" - this is the page which has all of the information about a given word and also the comments threads associated with it. To get there you can either click "edit" from the menu bar at the top of the screen when you are in a learning session, or click on a word in the "course" or "garden" view. The items in each wordset are all taken from the same central database. So if we correct one version of "hao", then that correction will come up in every wordset where that appears (not *quite* true - there are a few duplicates in the database, but we are removing them).Thanks very much and best wishesBen
Yenx 2 months, 1 week ago
The "xing" (形) is short for 形容词 xíngróngcí, meaning "adjective". Chinese parts of speech are usually, in textbooks and dictionaries, abbreviated to the first character in brackets. So we often see (名) for 名词, (动) for 动词 and so on. I have however never seen it written out solely in Pinyin before.
The "xing" (形) is short for 形容词 xíngróngcí, meaning "adjective". Chinese parts of speech are usually, in textbooks and dictionaries, abbreviated to the first character in brackets. So we often see (名) for 名词, (动) for 动词 and so on. I have however never seen it written out solely in Pinyin before.
benwhately 2 months, 1 week ago
Thank you for that excellent explanation; makes perfect sense now. Thanks!
Thank you for that excellent explanation; makes perfect sense now. Thanks!
phylae 2 months, 1 week ago
So how should the memrise database handle this? Should "xing" be replaced with 形 in the part of speech field?
So how should the memrise database handle this? Should "xing" be replaced with 形 in the part of speech field?
What's the difference between Featured Courses and Community Courses?
And sorry if this question has already been asked and answered somewhere, I couldn't find a search that would help me find that out...
Thank you!
And sorry if this question has already been asked and answered somewhere, I couldn't find a search that would help me find that out...
Thank you!
2 comments
Latest 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Azimuth 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Hi, Ingrid. I think the only difference is that 'Featured Courses' are a small group of courses which the memrise people think it might be useful to highlight. Most of those courses were compiled by Ben, the memrise guy in charge of mandarin content. 'Community Courses' are everything else - i.e. all other courses for Mandarin, of varying relevance (e.g. many are written by users for their own studies, and might not be so useful for others). Right now it's difficult to search and browse through these, but they're apparently building a better interface for that.
Hi, Ingrid. I think the only difference is that 'Featured Courses' are a small group of courses which the memrise people think it might be useful to highlight. Most of those courses were compiled by Ben, the memrise guy in charge of mandarin content. 'Community Courses' are everything else - i.e. all other courses for Mandarin, of varying relevance (e.g. many are written by users for their own studies, and might not be so useful for others). Right now it's difficult to search and browse through these, but they're apparently building a better interface for that.
Azimuth 2 months, 2 weeks ago
Hi, Ingrid. I think the only difference is that 'Featured Courses' are a small group of courses which the memrise people think it might be useful to highlight. Most of those courses were compiled by Ben, the memrise guy in charge of mandarin content. 'Community Courses' are everything else - i.e. all other courses for Mandarin, of varying relevance (e.g. many are written by users for their own studies, and might not be so useful for others). Right now it's difficult to search and browse through these, but they're apparently building a better interface for that.
Hi, Ingrid. I think the only difference is that 'Featured Courses' are a small group of courses which the memrise people think it might be useful to highlight. Most of those courses were compiled by Ben, the memrise guy in charge of mandarin content. 'Community Courses' are everything else - i.e. all other courses for Mandarin, of varying relevance (e.g. many are written by users for their own studies, and might not be so useful for others). Right now it's difficult to search and browse through these, but they're apparently building a better interface for that.
If this is happening to you, then it sounds like you have not got the Asian fonts installed on your computer. If you are running Windows XP, then you can install them. [Here](http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_XP.html) are some instructions.
8 comments
Latest 2 months, 2 weeks ago
maozhou 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I can see the characters but I wonder, is it possible to use a different font to display the HANZI? I would like to use a font that more closely matches the font on my iPhone. Interestingly, (i think so anyway) when I use Safari on my iPhone to access Memrise it uses a different font that I like much more. Is it a setting in my Chrome browser? Or something in Memrise?
I can see the characters but I wonder, is it possible to use a different font to display the HANZI? I would like to use a font that more closely matches the font on my iPhone. Interestingly, (i think so anyway) when I use Safari on my iPhone to access Memrise it uses a different font that I like much more. Is it a setting in my Chrome browser? Or something in Memrise?
maozhou 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I can see the characters but I wonder, is it possible to use a different font to display the HANZI? I would like to use a font that more closely matches the font on my iPhone. Interestingly, (i think so anyway) when I use Safari on my iPhone to access Memrise it uses a different font that I like much more. Is it a setting in my Chrome browser? Or something in Memrise?
I can see the characters but I wonder, is it possible to use a different font to display the HANZI? I would like to use a font that more closely matches the font on my iPhone. Interestingly, (i think so anyway) when I use Safari on my iPhone to access Memrise it uses a different font that I like much more. Is it a setting in my Chrome browser? Or something in Memrise?
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
The way that it works is that we make a variety of fonts available, but which one is displayed will depend on your browser and its settings. So you might be able to adjust the settings on your computer to get the same font as you see on your phone; but I'm not actually sure how to go about that. It is actually quite useful though to get used to recognising the characters in a variety of fonts; so perhaps that thought can ease the irritation!Best wishesBen
The way that it works is that we make a variety of fonts available, but which one is displayed will depend on your browser and its settings. So you might be able to adjust the settings on your computer to get the same font as you see on your phone; but I'm not actually sure how to go about that. It is actually quite useful though to get used to recognising the characters in a variety of fonts; so perhaps that thought can ease the irritation!Best wishesBen
benwhately 2 months, 2 weeks ago
The way that it works is that we make a variety of fonts available, but which one is displayed will depend on your browser and its settings. So you might be able to adjust the settings on your computer to get the same font as you see on your phone; but I'm not actually sure how to go about that. It is actually quite useful though to get used to recognising the characters in a variety of fonts; so perhaps that thought can ease the irritation!Best wishesBen
The way that it works is that we make a variety of fonts available, but which one is displayed will depend on your browser and its settings. So you might be able to adjust the settings on your computer to get the same font as you see on your phone; but I'm not actually sure how to go about that. It is actually quite useful though to get used to recognising the characters in a variety of fonts; so perhaps that thought can ease the irritation!Best wishesBen
maozhou 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I tried that but dont know enough about chrome to change it so I opened a ticket w chrome support. In the mean time I have switched my memrise browser to IE. It displays beautiful fonts that are easier for me to deal with. Not the same modern font as my iPhone but more readable. I am suspecting it is also a matter of chrome not smoothing the jagged edges of the characters that make it harder for me. IE is smooth....!
I tried that but dont know enough about chrome to change it so I opened a ticket w chrome support. In the mean time I have switched my memrise browser to IE. It displays beautiful fonts that are easier for me to deal with. Not the same modern font as my iPhone but more readable. I am suspecting it is also a matter of chrome not smoothing the jagged edges of the characters that make it harder for me. IE is smooth....!
maozhou 2 months, 2 weeks ago
I tried that but dont know enough about chrome to change it so I opened a ticket w chrome support. In the mean time I have switched my memrise browser to IE. It displays beautiful fonts that are easier for me to deal with. Not the same modern font as my iPhone but more readable. I am suspecting it is also a matter of chrome not smoothing the jagged edges of the characters that make it harder for me. IE is smooth....!
I tried that but dont know enough about chrome to change it so I opened a ticket w chrome support. In the mean time I have switched my memrise browser to IE. It displays beautiful fonts that are easier for me to deal with. Not the same modern font as my iPhone but more readable. I am suspecting it is also a matter of chrome not smoothing the jagged edges of the characters that make it harder for me. IE is smooth....!
Hey there! Have been having great success with learning characters so far; but have slammed on the brakes a little right now. Reason being, I'd also like to maximise my efforts, and combine learning stroke order - and how to write the characters that I'm learning how to read...
Wondering if people have any suggestions on the most efficient way to do this, or if they have any good links that will match up with the Mandarin Survival/Essential/Radical courses without too much confusion!! Xiè xiè in advance for any help offered! : )
Wondering if people have any suggestions on the most efficient way to do this, or if they have any good links that will match up with the Mandarin Survival/Essential/Radical courses without too much confusion!! Xiè xiè in advance for any help offered! : )
24 comments
Latest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
MandarinManiac 4 months ago
I have been wondering the same thing. Stages of learning used so far are: absorption (character, pinyin, audio all presented); recognition of the correct character within a set; learner's reproduction of meaning in English letters. Next logical step would be reproduction in Chinese characters because the tactile would really reinforce the visual input. That seems to be why the Chinese educational system is so successful - students must repeat and repeat and repeat characters in writing for 12 years to the point of "muscle memory." Seems unlikely there is any program that would recognize (1) strokes and (2) (I can dream!) correct stroke order...but then again, programmers can do amazing things sometimes.n For now, I click on the video of how to write the chacter, and follow along, writing the character in the air with a pretend brush.... Susa
I have been wondering the same thing. Stages of learning used so far are: absorption (character, pinyin, audio all presented); recognition of the correct character within a set; learner's reproduction of meaning in English letters. Next logical step would be reproduction in Chinese characters because the tactile would really reinforce the visual input. That seems to be why the Chinese educational system is so successful - students must repeat and repeat and repeat characters in writing for 12 years to the point of "muscle memory." Seems unlikely there is any program that would recognize (1) strokes and (2) (I can dream!) correct stroke order...but then again, programmers can do amazing things sometimes.n For now, I click on the video of how to write the chacter, and follow along, writing the character in the air with a pretend brush.... Susa
MandarinManiac 4 months ago
I have been wondering the same thing. Stages of learning used so far are: absorption (character, pinyin, audio all presented); recognition of the correct character within a set; learner's reproduction of meaning in English letters. Next logical step would be reproduction in Chinese characters because the tactile would really reinforce the visual input. That seems to be why the Chinese educational system is so successful - students must repeat and repeat and repeat characters in writing for 12 years to the point of "muscle memory." Seems unlikely there is any program that would recognize (1) strokes and (2) (I can dream!) correct stroke order...but then again, programmers can do amazing things sometimes.n For now, I click on the video of how to write the chacter, and follow along, writing the character in the air with a pretend brush.... Susa
I have been wondering the same thing. Stages of learning used so far are: absorption (character, pinyin, audio all presented); recognition of the correct character within a set; learner's reproduction of meaning in English letters. Next logical step would be reproduction in Chinese characters because the tactile would really reinforce the visual input. That seems to be why the Chinese educational system is so successful - students must repeat and repeat and repeat characters in writing for 12 years to the point of "muscle memory." Seems unlikely there is any program that would recognize (1) strokes and (2) (I can dream!) correct stroke order...but then again, programmers can do amazing things sometimes.n For now, I click on the video of how to write the chacter, and follow along, writing the character in the air with a pretend brush.... Susa
mfredholm 4 months ago
Check out www.pleco.com, maybe something for you, I have not used it for too long on my iPhone4 but it has worked nicely so far
Check out www.pleco.com, maybe something for you, I have not used it for too long on my iPhone4 but it has worked nicely so far
mfredholm 4 months ago
Check out www.pleco.com, maybe something for you, I have not used it for too long on my iPhone4 but it has worked nicely so far
Check out www.pleco.com, maybe something for you, I have not used it for too long on my iPhone4 but it has worked nicely so far
benwhately 4 months ago
This is an excellent point - once we have the app working, you will be able to answer questions by drawing the character on the iphone. This should be along very soon. Hope that helps!
This is an excellent point - once we have the app working, you will be able to answer questions by drawing the character on the iphone. This should be along very soon. Hope that helps!
benwhately 4 months ago
This is an excellent point - once we have the app working, you will be able to answer questions by drawing the character on the iphone. This should be along very soon. Hope that helps!
This is an excellent point - once we have the app working, you will be able to answer questions by drawing the character on the iphone. This should be along very soon. Hope that helps!
snowcreature99 4 months ago
First off, I second the notion that this would be a really big boost to learning. I'm all in favor of this, have though about this, and definitely want it.I think what Ben W. mentions in a separate comment is that this capability is built into iOS - so with an iPhone App you'll be able to write the characters.Memrise doesn't have to create the code to recognize strokes and stroke order, because it's part of an iPhone's operating system already. Apple built this functionality. All memrise has to do is accept character input, and the iPhone can create that character based on your handwriting.Mac computers also have this built in, at least as of the last two big revs of the OS.Now, what I would love to have is a way to learn the correct stroke order. I can guess ~90% right based on general rules, but is there a database of this info that can be integrated at some point, so that you can surface correct stroke order? (I know we're deep into wish-list territory here...)
First off, I second the notion that this would be a really big boost to learning. I'm all in favor of this, have though about this, and definitely want it.I think what Ben W. mentions in a separate comment is that this capability is built into iOS - so with an iPhone App you'll be able to write the characters.Memrise doesn't have to create the code to recognize strokes and stroke order, because it's part of an iPhone's operating system already. Apple built this functionality. All memrise has to do is accept character input, and the iPhone can create that character based on your handwriting.Mac computers also have this built in, at least as of the last two big revs of the OS.Now, what I would love to have is a way to learn the correct stroke order. I can guess ~90% right based on general rules, but is there a database of this info that can be integrated at some point, so that you can surface correct stroke order? (I know we're deep into wish-list territory here...)
snowcreature99 4 months ago
First off, I second the notion that this would be a really big boost to learning. I'm all in favor of this, have though about this, and definitely want it.I think what Ben W. mentions in a separate comment is that this capability is built into iOS - so with an iPhone App you'll be able to write the characters.Memrise doesn't have to create the code to recognize strokes and stroke order, because it's part of an iPhone's operating system already. Apple built this functionality. All memrise has to do is accept character input, and the iPhone can create that character based on your handwriting.Mac computers also have this built in, at least as of the last two big revs of the OS.Now, what I would love to have is a way to learn the correct stroke order. I can guess ~90% right based on general rules, but is there a database of this info that can be integrated at some point, so that you can surface correct stroke order? (I know we're deep into wish-list territory here...)
First off, I second the notion that this would be a really big boost to learning. I'm all in favor of this, have though about this, and definitely want it.I think what Ben W. mentions in a separate comment is that this capability is built into iOS - so with an iPhone App you'll be able to write the characters.Memrise doesn't have to create the code to recognize strokes and stroke order, because it's part of an iPhone's operating system already. Apple built this functionality. All memrise has to do is accept character input, and the iPhone can create that character based on your handwriting.Mac computers also have this built in, at least as of the last two big revs of the OS.Now, what I would love to have is a way to learn the correct stroke order. I can guess ~90% right based on general rules, but is there a database of this info that can be integrated at some point, so that you can surface correct stroke order? (I know we're deep into wish-list territory here...)
TL-Talafar 3 months, 4 weeks ago
I'm thinking about buying a smartphone with the main intention of using it to help my writing. A friend just sold me on pleco, but I didn't know you guys would also be supporting writing. Great :) Is your app going to be apple exclusive? Or will there also be an android version?
I'm thinking about buying a smartphone with the main intention of using it to help my writing. A friend just sold me on pleco, but I didn't know you guys would also be supporting writing. Great :) Is your app going to be apple exclusive? Or will there also be an android version?
TL-Talafar 3 months, 4 weeks ago
I'm thinking about buying a smartphone with the main intention of using it to help my writing. A friend just sold me on pleco, but I didn't know you guys would also be supporting writing. Great :) Is your app going to be apple exclusive? Or will there also be an android version?
I'm thinking about buying a smartphone with the main intention of using it to help my writing. A friend just sold me on pleco, but I didn't know you guys would also be supporting writing. Great :) Is your app going to be apple exclusive? Or will there also be an android version?
benwhately 3 months, 4 weeks ago
The first version will be an iphone app, but we will develop others soon after that. Best wishesBen
The first version will be an iphone app, but we will develop others soon after that. Best wishesBen
benwhately 3 months, 4 weeks ago
The first version will be an iphone app, but we will develop others soon after that. Best wishesBen
The first version will be an iphone app, but we will develop others soon after that. Best wishesBen
chickendude 3 months, 1 week ago
Have either of you checked out Skritter? It has exactly that (character recognition/stroke order)...
Have either of you checked out Skritter? It has exactly that (character recognition/stroke order)...
chickendude 3 months, 1 week ago
Have either of you checked out Skritter? It has exactly that (character recognition/stroke order)...
Have either of you checked out Skritter? It has exactly that (character recognition/stroke order)...
snowcreature99 3 months, 1 week ago
Have looked at it but not started using. Looks pretty good, they pretty much say that you want to have a Wacom tablet and stylus for the best experience. Probably will get one and check it out.The thing is, I'm not at all excited about adding yet another system to do quizzes. Am super busy getting a startup off the ground, and would much rather just quiz the same words I'm already drilling in Memrise. Will probably just start by trying the HSK series in Skritter.
Have looked at it but not started using. Looks pretty good, they pretty much say that you want to have a Wacom tablet and stylus for the best experience. Probably will get one and check it out.The thing is, I'm not at all excited about adding yet another system to do quizzes. Am super busy getting a startup off the ground, and would much rather just quiz the same words I'm already drilling in Memrise. Will probably just start by trying the HSK series in Skritter.
snowcreature99 3 months, 1 week ago
Have looked at it but not started using. Looks pretty good, they pretty much say that you want to have a Wacom tablet and stylus for the best experience. Probably will get one and check it out.The thing is, I'm not at all excited about adding yet another system to do quizzes. Am super busy getting a startup off the ground, and would much rather just quiz the same words I'm already drilling in Memrise. Will probably just start by trying the HSK series in Skritter.
Have looked at it but not started using. Looks pretty good, they pretty much say that you want to have a Wacom tablet and stylus for the best experience. Probably will get one and check it out.The thing is, I'm not at all excited about adding yet another system to do quizzes. Am super busy getting a startup off the ground, and would much rather just quiz the same words I'm already drilling in Memrise. Will probably just start by trying the HSK series in Skritter.
jenniferhunter 2 months, 4 weeks ago
I've started using this website - you can print worksheets to practice writing the characters. I laminated mine and I use erasable market so that I don't waste paper. http://www.hanlexon.org/index....
I've started using this website - you can print worksheets to practice writing the characters. I laminated mine and I use erasable market so that I don't waste paper. http://www.hanlexon.org/index....
jenniferhunter 2 months, 4 weeks ago
I've started using this website - you can print worksheets to practice writing the characters. I laminated mine and I use erasable market so that I don't waste paper. http://www.hanlexon.org/index....
I've started using this website - you can print worksheets to practice writing the characters. I laminated mine and I use erasable market so that I don't waste paper. http://www.hanlexon.org/index....
owenb 2 months, 3 weeks ago
For Android, there is "monkey write", which teaches you the order of the strokes, and is quite intuitive.
For Android, there is "monkey write", which teaches you the order of the strokes, and is quite intuitive.
owenb 2 months, 3 weeks ago
For Android, there is "monkey write", which teaches you the order of the strokes, and is quite intuitive.
For Android, there is "monkey write", which teaches you the order of the strokes, and is quite intuitive.
doyle.kate 2 months, 3 weeks ago
iChinese for Iphone 4s is a good app for learning how to write characters. it recognizes stroke order and has sets of characters that are tested and reviewed based on a frequency of how successfully you can write them (similar to watering plants in memrise - if you make a mistake it shows up in the rotation again quickly) unnfotunately some of the beginner-level characters are not simple or very useful. can't wait for something similar from memrise that will re-enforce characters already in my gardens!
iChinese for Iphone 4s is a good app for learning how to write characters. it recognizes stroke order and has sets of characters that are tested and reviewed based on a frequency of how successfully you can write them (similar to watering plants in memrise - if you make a mistake it shows up in the rotation again quickly) unnfotunately some of the beginner-level characters are not simple or very useful. can't wait for something similar from memrise that will re-enforce characters already in my gardens!
doyle.kate 2 months, 3 weeks ago
iChinese for Iphone 4s is a good app for learning how to write characters. it recognizes stroke order and has sets of characters that are tested and reviewed based on a frequency of how successfully you can write them (similar to watering plants in memrise - if you make a mistake it shows up in the rotation again quickly) unnfotunately some of the beginner-level characters are not simple or very useful. can't wait for something similar from memrise that will re-enforce characters already in my gardens!
iChinese for Iphone 4s is a good app for learning how to write characters. it recognizes stroke order and has sets of characters that are tested and reviewed based on a frequency of how successfully you can write them (similar to watering plants in memrise - if you make a mistake it shows up in the rotation again quickly) unnfotunately some of the beginner-level characters are not simple or very useful. can't wait for something similar from memrise that will re-enforce characters already in my gardens!
The pinyin of 虎 tiger is shown here as hu1, but in all my dictionaries it is hu3. Also, here the bottom 'small table' in the character is missing, or is that just a variant?
4 comments
Latest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
r7ll 2 months, 3 weeks ago
This was discussed in an earlier thread:http://www.memrise.com/topic/m...
This was discussed in an earlier thread:http://www.memrise.com/topic/m...
r7ll 2 months, 3 weeks ago
This was discussed in an earlier thread:http://www.memrise.com/topic/m...
This was discussed in an earlier thread:http://www.memrise.com/topic/m...
Azimuth 2 months, 3 weeks ago
虍 hu1 is a radical distinct from 虎 hu3. Have a look at this etymology mem for 虍 hu1 by johnguo:http://www.memrise.com/mem/908...
虍 hu1 is a radical distinct from 虎 hu3. Have a look at this etymology mem for 虍 hu1 by johnguo:http://www.memrise.com/mem/908...
Azimuth 2 months, 3 weeks ago
虍 hu1 is a radical distinct from 虎 hu3. Have a look at this etymology mem for 虍 hu1 by johnguo:http://www.memrise.com/mem/908...
虍 hu1 is a radical distinct from 虎 hu3. Have a look at this etymology mem for 虍 hu1 by johnguo:http://www.memrise.com/mem/908...
I would like to print out some characters with their Pinyin meanings so I can stick them around the home.
My trouble Is, where can I find a site to find characters with Pinyin?
This way, even when I ain't sat at my computor learning, I will still be seeing and taking these charracters In. It could work.
My trouble Is, where can I find a site to find characters with Pinyin?
This way, even when I ain't sat at my computor learning, I will still be seeing and taking these charracters In. It could work.
2 comments
Latest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
r7ll 2 months, 3 weeks ago
You can download entire wordlists as a spreadsheet - it includes the character, meaning, pinyin, and parts of speech too.
You can download entire wordlists as a spreadsheet - it includes the character, meaning, pinyin, and parts of speech too.
r7ll 2 months, 3 weeks ago
You can download entire wordlists as a spreadsheet - it includes the character, meaning, pinyin, and parts of speech too.
You can download entire wordlists as a spreadsheet - it includes the character, meaning, pinyin, and parts of speech too.
I've put up a few mems from a site called 'DearDimSum.com', which is a daily bite-sized lesson featuring a Chinese word or phrase. The explanations are fun and each post takes practically no time at all to read (the author aims for 'low-commitment, highly gratifying' Chinese, just like its edible namesake.) Here are the mems:
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
The author was going to post here, but has had trouble getting the forum to work. Maybe it'll happen though.
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
http://www.memrise.com/mem/...
The author was going to post here, but has had trouble getting the forum to work. Maybe it'll happen though.
4 comments
Latest 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Azimuth 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Urgh, I hate the formatting of these forums. (memrise team! Please let us insert line breaks etc, and in the mems too!) Let's see if this works better: First: http://www.memrise.com/mem/... second:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...And third:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...
Urgh, I hate the formatting of these forums. (memrise team! Please let us insert line breaks etc, and in the mems too!) Let's see if this works better: First: http://www.memrise.com/mem/... second:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...And third:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...
Azimuth 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Urgh, I hate the formatting of these forums. (memrise team! Please let us insert line breaks etc, and in the mems too!) Let's see if this works better: First: http://www.memrise.com/mem/... second:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...And third:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...
Urgh, I hate the formatting of these forums. (memrise team! Please let us insert line breaks etc, and in the mems too!) Let's see if this works better: First: http://www.memrise.com/mem/... second:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...And third:http://www.memrise.com/mem/203...
benwhately 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Those are great mems! My apologies for the formatting int he forums - there are quite a few issues with the way Disqus works on Memrise and we are currently building our own forum infrastructure to replace it. This will allow us to give you much more control over formatting and will also allow features like adding comments during a learning session, and a better search function. It will be along soon!
Those are great mems! My apologies for the formatting int he forums - there are quite a few issues with the way Disqus works on Memrise and we are currently building our own forum infrastructure to replace it. This will allow us to give you much more control over formatting and will also allow features like adding comments during a learning session, and a better search function. It will be along soon!
benwhately 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Those are great mems! My apologies for the formatting int he forums - there are quite a few issues with the way Disqus works on Memrise and we are currently building our own forum infrastructure to replace it. This will allow us to give you much more control over formatting and will also allow features like adding comments during a learning session, and a better search function. It will be along soon!
Those are great mems! My apologies for the formatting int he forums - there are quite a few issues with the way Disqus works on Memrise and we are currently building our own forum infrastructure to replace it. This will allow us to give you much more control over formatting and will also allow features like adding comments during a learning session, and a better search function. It will be along soon!
I'm having the same issue. Working my way through the excellent Mandarin Survivalcourse. There are two characters that look identical, but have a differentmeaning. They are profession (hang2) and okay (xing2). Can anybody suggest away I can differentiate between these two characters? ThanksJagged
I'm having the same issue. Working my way through the excellent Mandarin Survivalcourse. There are two characters that look identical, but have a differentmeaning. They are profession (hang2) and okay (xing2). Can anybody suggest away I can differentiate between these two characters? ThanksJagged
Currently you have to use the parts of speech that appear just above the term being tested: 'empty' is 'adjt; xing' (I don't know what xing means here) and 'free time' is a noun. It's not ideal; there was a thread that discussed this recently: http://www.memrise.com/forum/m...
Currently you have to use the parts of speech that appear just above the term being tested: 'empty' is 'adjt; xing' (I don't know what xing means here) and 'free time' is a noun. It's not ideal; there was a thread that discussed this recently: http://www.memrise.com/forum/m...
The two characters are identical, but there are two different pronunciations. the part of speech *can* give you a clue on that one - "professions" is only listed as a noun, with okay as a verb and a noun (it has other meanings as well). But if you answer "profession" for "okay" you *should* be marked correct, and vice versa - is that not happening? I will look into it at once if not.Thanks!Ben
The two characters are identical, but there are two different pronunciations. the part of speech *can* give you a clue on that one - "professions" is only listed as a noun, with okay as a verb and a noun (it has other meanings as well). But if you answer "profession" for "okay" you *should* be marked correct, and vice versa - is that not happening? I will look into it at once if not.Thanks!Ben
You can answer either of "okay" or "profession" for the character 行 last time I checked. I just had a look at the thread that Azimuth linked to, and it seems like you guys are already making progress with reducing ambiguity, so I'll wait for the next update :)Thanks for your hard work!
You can answer either of "okay" or "profession" for the character 行 last time I checked. I just had a look at the thread that Azimuth linked to, and it seems like you guys are already making progress with reducing ambiguity, so I'll wait for the next update :)Thanks for your hard work!
Yeah, they help sometimes, but I just had 系come up, with part of speech "verb;noun". Now I know that character can mean "department" (xi4) or "to fasten" (ji4), so knowing the part of speech wasn't terribly helpful here :(
Yeah, they help sometimes, but I just had 系come up, with part of speech "verb;noun". Now I know that character can mean "department" (xi4) or "to fasten" (ji4), so knowing the part of speech wasn't terribly helpful here :(
I agree, it doesn't always help.
I agree, it doesn't always help.
Thanks for the reply both. I think currently it marks as incorrect when answerring "profession" as "okay" or vise versa, but this is probably a good thing. I will take more notice of the pronunciation. Cheers Jared
Thanks for the reply both. I think currently it marks as incorrect when answerring "profession" as "okay" or vise versa, but this is probably a good thing. I will take more notice of the pronunciation. Cheers Jared
The character 看 is a perfect example of this problem. When pronounced as "kan1" it means "to look after". When pronounced as "kan4" it means "to look". Both are verbs, and only verbs. When I get tested on 看 there is no way for me to know which it is. If I enter "to see" for "kan4", it marks it as correct. But if I enter "to see" for "kan1", it marks it as "nearly".I think the best thing would be to accept both answers for both. However, I don't think the solution is to add "to see" as alternate English for "kan1" because "kan1" never means that.
The character 看 is a perfect example of this problem. When pronounced as "kan1" it means "to look after". When pronounced as "kan4" it means "to look". Both are verbs, and only verbs. When I get tested on 看 there is no way for me to know which it is. If I enter "to see" for "kan4", it marks it as correct. But if I enter "to see" for "kan1", it marks it as "nearly".I think the best thing would be to accept both answers for both. However, I don't think the solution is to add "to see" as alternate English for "kan1" because "kan1" never means that.
You are completely right and this is very frustrating. It *should* work that either answer is accepted, but that it clearly not working properly at the moment. We are going to get this fixed really soon. Apologies for the annoyance until it is sorted out.
You are completely right and this is very frustrating. It *should* work that either answer is accepted, but that it clearly not working properly at the moment. We are going to get this fixed really soon. Apologies for the annoyance until it is sorted out.
It's great to know it is being worked on. Thanks.
It's great to know it is being worked on. Thanks.
Why not having "Other meaning expected" result and prompt again for that other meaning? The student would be conforted by the fact that he wasn't wrong, but that there is yet another meaning. It would actually be that way with a teacher at an oral exam.
I agree with valdor's comment above. That would be a good way to do it.
Encountering this with 着 (zhao2 and zhe5) -- the two different meanings have NO parts of speech labelled, and they are both in my rotation (and have been for about a month). I continuously guess wrong (because it is a blind 50/50 chance of being right), so they have never solidified themselves in my garden. However, I do know them both pretty well now ;))
@saltome Exactly so! I find the words that I have been unjustly marked wrong for I tend to remember better. The momentary indignation suffered seems to root the word in my memory much better than any mem. Maybe this is deliberate feature :P
@saltome - I've marked 着 zhao2 as a 'verb; particle' and zhe5 as 'particle' only. This should be a useful hint at least, so you're not just guessing blind. I also changed the primary meaning of zhao2 to 'completed action' and added some alternative meanings - hope this helps.
(Also, I found this page quite useful in explaining the differences between the two, in particular the post by renzhe:
http://www.chinese-forums.c...)
Pretty sure that the 'xing/hang' problem is only when you type in pinyin. When you write okay/profession it doesn't seem to mind.