Pronunciation Field (Clear Information)
I was about to write a long suggestion for how we could use the pronunciation field to better allow people learning Kanji before the Kana, as many users have expressed their desire for. I am a pretty active user of this site and have even done a little curating and moderating. I say this only to prove that even after 2 1/2 months of using the site and doing all that work, I didn't know you could already choose between Kana and Kanji as the information to learn from.
But this IS already possible. If a user goes into a course link and clicks More Learning Options, they can toggle between Reading and Pronunciation. Reading is the Kana (Hiragana field) and Pronunciation is the Kanji.
The main Japanese Database is messy because many people are entering the Kanji in the Kana field and vice versa. This is unnecessary because they can already choose how they want to learn it. (Please correct me if I am mistaken in any of this)
So my main point now is: Is it possible to clean up the Japanese Introduction Information (or create a side/top bar that lists this information)? I'm not talking about the FAQ (which cacoethes did a great job of writing and revising). I think there should be a simple explanation someplace obvious for users to quickly know two things:
1- How to choose what to be taught/tested on between Kana and Kanji 2- How to enter in new lists clearly.
The current information on how to type in individual words or upload a list are very precise and accurate, but too wordy (and hidden in the FAQ, right?). This extended explanation is necessary, but above it (and in a much more simple manner) there should be an easy to understand summary.
Thoughts?
If you were actually able to SAVE your settings, it would be fine. As is, though, when accessing your words from the water button etc, you just go the straight route.
By the way, I do think that learning the Kana first is actually the way to go. But the Kanji should be properly introduced and shown every time, too.
Posted by ikenaiAndi 4/8/12 (1 year ago)This is completely right. We are going to be adding in persistent (ie ones that save and don't have to be re-set each learning session) user settings that will help a lot with this. But better FAQs are also crucial; actually, I think that we will make a special section for the "conventions" and then have the FAQs as more general FAQs on how to use the site. That would make more sense.
It would be great to get together more ideas on the key points that need to be explained on the FAQs so that we can put them together.
There is going to be a new course creation tool released very very soon, so that will need new explanation as well, though hopefully it will be more intuitive than the current one.
Best wishes
Ben
Posted by benwhately 4/8/12 (1 year ago)The very first time a user attempts to learn any words they must click through a short tutorial. This tutorial gives a very brief and colorful introduction to seeds, greenhouses, and gardens.
Could we have a fun introduction like this for list making? Could we make another for learning options?
Posted by phoenixphreak 4/8/12 (1 year ago)I think that's a good idea phoenixphreak. Do you think it should be a video tut that people can watch? That would be something quick dirty that we could put together and link to.
Posted by jlptbootcamp 4/9/12 (1 year ago)A video would be fine, but a quick few lines like this might be good to start:
In the Japanese section words will be introduced as Kana (usually Hiragana). After your word grows to level X you will have the Kanji introduced with testing of the Kanji only after that.
To jump straight to testing with Kanji, please go to the top of a course you are learning and select 'More learning options', then select 'pronunciation'.
Posted by phoenixphreak 4/10/12 (1 year ago)@phoenixphreak - we clearly need that explanation. Where would be the most obvious place to put it do you think? I can think of several, but not sure where people are the most certain to see it. Do you meant that we should put an extra slide in at the start of your very first learning session in Japanese, explaining this? Like the "garden" explanation? I will will in to how we could do this. It would definitely be a big help I think.
Thanks
Ben
Posted by benwhately 4/10/12 (1 year ago)@benwhately - I think it is best to have that for the first time doing a Japanese course, or if it isn't too annoying (a simple click will move through it), we should have it for every time someone starts a NEW Japanese course.
It might be a little annoying, but how often do people continuously start a new course?
Also, a similar intro page would be useful when someone goes in to either make a new course using the Memrise search set-up or the spreadsheet upload. Again, maybe only each time a brand-new course is made.
Once people know how to properly study Kanji first and correctly find previously introduced words (connecting straight to the moderated data), the whole Japanese section will become more succinct and mems will flow like rivers from the crisp purple mountains in the clouds. Birds will sing in the air, and you know... and so on...
;D
Posted by phoenixphreak 4/10/12 (1 year ago)@pheonixphreak
I think that's a good suggestion, but how about for the second time they create a course/start a course there is a skip button on the first slide. I would find the constant explanation extremely annoying. Ill probably create/start courses about every 3 months or so and I don't really want to see that every time. IMHO
I do like the explanation/copy you wrote though. Very succinct.
Posted by jlptbootcamp 4/10/12 (1 year ago)I was actually envisioning something slightly colorful and simple, but clear. It would be something that could be clicked through quickly, just like the initial welcome new users have for studying in general.
I think having it for every new course (while making one or starting to study one) for the two different types, but they should be easy to click through (one click) so as to not waste people's time or draw complaints.
Posted by phoenixphreak 4/10/12 (1 year ago)When you say click through (one click), do you mean it is only one window that floats/pops up? and so a skip button would be a bit redundant because you just click close and be done with it?
For the walk through I would think it would be beneficial to have several windows that 'pop' open the menu you can use to select how you can change the settings and explains most of the popular settings not just kanji first (which I assume the pronunciation field in that menu will be renamed as). Is that not what you are envisioning?
Posted by jlptbootcamp 4/10/12 (1 year ago)Yeah, a skip button would be redundant. Kinda like how the original welcome screen has the 'next' button to the right (just like the gray/blue button during the test, this new screen and button would just slip in to a newly started Japanese Course.
It shouldn't have anything crazy like 'check here to agree with terms and conditions'.
A walk through would be great for making or uploading new lists. But as users would already know about the correct organization of the database, hopefully it won't have to be as drilled in to not upload backwards... Still, a clear understanding of how to do that too would be great. Way more users study other lists than make their own, so those lists should be made well for all those other people to use.
Posted by phoenixphreak 4/12/12 (1 year ago)