It's impossible to differenciate between "Cela" and "Celui"

In the french basic course, That = Cela and Celui, I know what those means but whenever the memes show me that I just flip a coin and write any of those two and 50% of the time get it right. Plz change the memes of celui and cela to that (female thing) = cela and that (male thing) celui, or new people could kinda get frustrated.

Posted by memrise_ 3/3/12, last update 4/27/12 (2 years ago)
  • There are numerous examples of this throughout the course, including ce/ceci and batiment/immeuble. I've started a thread about it on the main section of the forum, and started leaving comments on the problematic words. I agree, it's extremely frustrating.

    Posted by Rebecca. 3/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • There are numerous examples of this throughout the course, including ce/ceci and batiment/immeuble. I've started a thread about it on the main section of the forum, and started leaving comments on the problematic words. I agree, it's extremely frustrating.

    Posted by Rebecca. 3/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • I am really sorry about this - either answer should be accepted, and I have found that it is accepted for me with the batiment/immeuble one - are you finding that you are marked wrong? This would be a bug and we will get it fixed ASAP. In general if you come across this issue we can add each word as a "french alternative" of the other so either answer should be marked as correct. Please do leave comments so that the topic curators can do this; it would be hugely appreciated!We are developing the tools to test the different nuance of meaning between different words using full sentences and fill-in-the-gap tests etc.I hope that helps,Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   3/7/12 (2 years ago)
  • @Roberto743:twitter : I think you are assuming something false, even if some of the forms can be close phonetically : cela is not the female version of celui. I think the french basic course is not careful enough.This and That can be translated by ça (more colloquial), Ceci or Cela when they are subjects on their own and refer to neutral objects or what has just been said in previous sentences. Marked masculine forms are Celui-ci and Celui-là. Marked feminine forms are Celle-ci and Celle-là. "Celui-ci est silencieux et celle-là est vraiment maline" (This one is very quiet and that one (girl) is so smart!) You have plural versions such as Ceux-ci, Ceux-là and Celles-ci and Celles-là approximately corresponding to those (ones) and these (ones). When that is used as a object of a verb or a subordinate sentence, you would translate   "that"   by    "que"  most of the times.  I know that I should start looking deeper : Je sais que je devrais approfondir. 

    Posted by oschwimmer 3/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • I could have given a better explanation myself, bravo.A word though: use Ceci or Cela or Celui-la in French conversation and you will be considered prissy or pompous. The only exception for Celui-ci would be in a choice question, "Vous voulez celui-ci ou celui-la?"Ceci and Cela are usually replaced in conversations by 'ça'.

    Posted by sfrenchie 3/14/12 (2 years ago)
  • So the current solution is to be liberal in application of "French alternatives", and then let the new tests take care of testing us on the nuances later?

    Looking at quitter/partir and garder/conserver for example.

    Posted by TL-solbard 4/25/12 (2 years ago)
  • I've made all three words listed only as "that"(celui, cela, and que) interchangeable for testing purposes(i.e. adding "_que" and "_cela" to celui) as a temporary solution. I do however think it would be better for teaching purposes to disambiguate rather than make them interchangeable.

    Would for example "the one" instead of "that" work for "celui"? Or would some parentheticals be better? Or are the new tests coming so soon that this will do until then?

    Posted by TL-solbard 4/27/12 (2 years ago)

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