Making Russian a "featured" language

We want to make Russian a featured language. For a full explanation of what this means, take a look here(http://www.memrise.com/faq/becoming-a-featured-language/). That is a general explanation of how we are going to go about it. But there are specific issues that make Russian a bit different.

  • there is already a lot of good content. I know that Robbie.C and jetfromgladiators among many other have been adding a great deal of excellent content.

  • I also know that parrishdj, alexpgp and saelie have been doing some great work on a spreadsheet that makes use of the roots of Russian words and the "depends on" feature that Memrise has so that you can always see and learn the root for a word when you are learning it. We have not yet uploaded that spreadsheet - we should certainly do so very soon!

But before we do, could we put together some final "conventions". Take a look at for example the Czech(http://www.memrise.com/faq/czech/) ones - they may be a good model, although they do not use the "roots" feature. Should we add this in?

We now have the tools to make this process as fast and easy as possible, so if you let me know your thoughts on altering the conventions, then we can crack on with getting this fixed up!

Posted by memrise_ 11/30/11, last update 3/15/12 (2 years ago)
  • I don't really have a comprehensive view of all the Russian material on the site, but judging from the larger word lists already created (as mentioned in the OP) we're off to a good start with the 2,500 word requirement for featured languages. I also think the Czech conventions are a good start, but Russian needs some special attention in different areas. A few that come to mind:1. Stress marks. In the Czech guidelines I see stress marks being used, so it's obviously possible with the latin alphabet, but I don't know if it's possible using Cyrillic (using alt+number combination?). Stress - and stress shifts - are incredibly important to learn because they directly influence pronunciation and thus how Russians understand you.2. Verb conjugation types and aspect. I would recommend always writing out the imperfective form followed by the perfective form of a verb and then either writing out the conjugation of the 1st/2nd person singular and the 3rd person plural somewhere else in the entry, or writing out an identification system for verbs in the future Russian guidelines which can be referenced as needed. Some advanced learning materials for Russian will identify verbs according to "type", i.e. Type I (АЙ) кончать, Type II (-И-) говорить, which could be time saving if you just wrote the type in the entry instead of writing out the conjugation for every verb. I don't have the exact identification system with me at the moment, but I'm curious if others are familiar with it.3. Irregular noun declination (i.e. сестра, сёстры, сестёр, сестрам). In this case it wouldn't be enough to just write "сестра - sister", because the plural forms need individual attention for someone to fully grasp how to use the word. This includes the important stress shifts as per (1).4. Verbs with prepositions. In this case (with verbs like общаться с, to deal with s.o., associate with s.ol), the "c" preposition is always used with the verb so it's worth including in an entry. I would recommend using it in conjuction with кто-либо conjugated to the corresponding case inherent to the preposition, so the example above would look like: общаться с кем-либо (or кем-л.). This is common in many Russian dictionaries and I don't see why it shouldn't be done here.5. I think we should avoid including the passive and active participle forms of verbs, unless they're commonly used. So a word like следующий would be OK, because it's used so commonly, but a word like курящий (the smoking...) isn't outside of rare literary cases. I guess this is a very subjective category, but it's a pretty advanced topic and if you're already somewhat well-versed in it you need more help learning the root verbs, not how to conjugate them in the participle form, anyway.I can't really think of anything else. Any opinions/additions to my initial points?

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 11/30/11 (2 years ago)
  • I don't really have a comprehensive view of all the Russian material on the site, but judging from the larger word lists already created (as mentioned in the OP) we're off to a good start with the 2,500 word requirement for featured languages. I also think the Czech conventions are a good start, but Russian needs some special attention in different areas. A few that come to mind:1. Stress marks. In the Czech guidelines I see stress marks being used, so it's obviously possible with the latin alphabet, but I don't know if it's possible using Cyrillic (using alt+number combination?). Stress - and stress shifts - are incredibly important to learn because they directly influence pronunciation and thus how Russians understand you.2. Verb conjugation types and aspect. I would recommend always writing out the imperfective form followed by the perfective form of a verb and then either writing out the conjugation of the 1st/2nd person singular and the 3rd person plural somewhere else in the entry, or writing out an identification system for verbs in the future Russian guidelines which can be referenced as needed. Some advanced learning materials for Russian will identify verbs according to "type", i.e. Type I (АЙ) кончать, Type II (-И-) говорить, which could be time saving if you just wrote the type in the entry instead of writing out the conjugation for every verb. I don't have the exact identification system with me at the moment, but I'm curious if others are familiar with it.3. Irregular noun declination (i.e. сестра, сёстры, сестёр, сестрам). In this case it wouldn't be enough to just write "сестра - sister", because the plural forms need individual attention for someone to fully grasp how to use the word. This includes the important stress shifts as per (1).4. Verbs with prepositions. In this case (with verbs like общаться с, to deal with s.o., associate with s.ol), the "c" preposition is always used with the verb so it's worth including in an entry. I would recommend using it in conjuction with кто-либо conjugated to the corresponding case inherent to the preposition, so the example above would look like: общаться с кем-либо (or кем-л.). This is common in many Russian dictionaries and I don't see why it shouldn't be done here.5. I think we should avoid including the passive and active participle forms of verbs, unless they're commonly used. So a word like следующий would be OK, because it's used so commonly, but a word like курящий (the smoking...) isn't outside of rare literary cases. I guess this is a very subjective category, but it's a pretty advanced topic and if you're already somewhat well-versed in it you need more help learning the root verbs, not how to conjugate them in the participle form, anyway.I can't really think of anything else. Any opinions/additions to my initial points?

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 11/30/11 (2 years ago)
  • I agree strongly with TL-Holzmann's comments.  I am new to the language (less than 2 months in) but now I am realizing the importance of more than just stress marks.  I will look at the czech conventions this weekend.    What we really need is encourage the creation of audio/video/phrase mems.  I find them hard to create in this language.  

    Posted by Robbie.C 12/1/11 (2 years ago)
  • I agree strongly with TL-Holzmann's comments.  I am new to the language (less than 2 months in) but now I am realizing the importance of more than just stress marks.  I will look at the czech conventions this weekend.    What we really need is encourage the creation of audio/video/phrase mems.  I find them hard to create in this language.  

    Posted by Robbie.C 12/1/11 (2 years ago)
  • Great discussion! I agree that Russian has a few nuances in ways to bring across the correct pronunciation. Whereas you will be 99% right if you place the stress on the second to last or last syllable in Spanish, this is not the case in Russian where the syllable that you place the stress on can change the meaning of the word. E.g. compare за́мок (castle) and замо́к (lock)I think you were referring to these acute accents, TL-Holzmann.I would like to help make some of these sets and if I dig in my old computer, have a lot of audio files for a phrase book that a group of us was making back in 2004-7.It would be great to have a feature where it would be possible to see the group of people learning a particular language and also to designate those who are volunteering as teachers. Is that possible to add? I think it would be helpful as not everyone MIT feel strongly enough to participate in the forum, but would be willing to participate in testing the word sets. I know that right now it shows in our profiles what are the top languages

    Posted by kayguarnay 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • Great discussion! I agree that Russian has a few nuances in ways to bring across the correct pronunciation. Whereas you will be 99% right if you place the stress on the second to last or last syllable in Spanish, this is not the case in Russian where the syllable that you place the stress on can change the meaning of the word. E.g. compare за́мок (castle) and замо́к (lock)I think you were referring to these acute accents, TL-Holzmann.I would like to help make some of these sets and if I dig in my old computer, have a lot of audio files for a phrase book that a group of us was making back in 2004-7.It would be great to have a feature where it would be possible to see the group of people learning a particular language and also to designate those who are volunteering as teachers. Is that possible to add? I think it would be helpful as not everyone MIT feel strongly enough to participate in the forum, but would be willing to participate in testing the word sets. I know that right now it shows in our profiles what are the top languages

    Posted by kayguarnay 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • Top languages that we are learning, but not ones that we speak or would be willing to share. (sorry for the disjointed reply, keep having trouble posting for some reason).

    Posted by kayguarnay 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • Top languages that we are learning, but not ones that we speak or would be willing to share. (sorry for the disjointed reply, keep having trouble posting for some reason).

    Posted by kayguarnay 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • This is a great suggestion. We are adding in much richer display on your profile page which will very soon include which languages you are a "topic curator" for. If people would like to participate in the editing etc but not in the forum discussion, they are, of course, more than welcome. The best thing to do would be to email me - ben@memrise.com - and I will set them up with the right permissions. But otherwise if we can keep as much of the discussion as possible on the forums, then that would be ideal - the more we share ideas etc, the faster we can get to a better system for doing this.The new profile pages will also, by the way, allow you to list your native and other languages spoken and also to write a bit of a bio if you want. Can you work out a way to type the stress marks for adding the items correctly to the database? If the issue is only for how to type answers correctly when you are being tested on the Russian, then I can fix that by adding in all the required letters with stress marks to an "in-browser keyboard" when you are answering in Russian. These letters will pop up underneath the answer box so you can click on them to add them in. Does anyone have a list of all the letters that can have stress marks on them?It would be great to have your help with creating these sets and also adding the audio etc!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • This is a great suggestion. We are adding in much richer display on your profile page which will very soon include which languages you are a "topic curator" for. If people would like to participate in the editing etc but not in the forum discussion, they are, of course, more than welcome. The best thing to do would be to email me - ben@memrise.com - and I will set them up with the right permissions. But otherwise if we can keep as much of the discussion as possible on the forums, then that would be ideal - the more we share ideas etc, the faster we can get to a better system for doing this.The new profile pages will also, by the way, allow you to list your native and other languages spoken and also to write a bit of a bio if you want. Can you work out a way to type the stress marks for adding the items correctly to the database? If the issue is only for how to type answers correctly when you are being tested on the Russian, then I can fix that by adding in all the required letters with stress marks to an "in-browser keyboard" when you are answering in Russian. These letters will pop up underneath the answer box so you can click on them to add them in. Does anyone have a list of all the letters that can have stress marks on them?It would be great to have your help with creating these sets and also adding the audio etc!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • 1 - I answered below about the stress marks - so if you can let me have a list of letters which might have stress marks, then I can add that in for answering.2 - Actually I have just been having a discussion about this for the Czech conventions. The suggestion there has been to add the "perfective" or "imperfective" after the english translation. So that when you were testing from the English, the test would say, e.g. "to give (imperfective)" which would mean that you had to type the right version. This means that the perfective and imperfective forms would be added as separate items. They could be connected by adding them as "confusables" of each other. This would mean that you could see one when you learned the other. It would also mean that they turn up quite often in the same multiple choices so that you focus on telling them apart. Is that useful in this case?We could add the "type" of the verb to the "special properties" field. This field will show up when you are learning a word, just underneath the word. It would be best to keep the information in the field short for display reasons - so "type 1" would be better than listing all of the grammatical parts. Alternatively this information could be put in the "part of speech" field as "type 1 verb". Which do you think would work best?3 - these different forms could be added in as "russian alternatives" - that way they would be displayed but not tested. Or, they could be added in in the "pronunciation" field. We could re-name this field "grammatical forms" or similar. That way the items in that field would start being tested once you had got to grips with the basic meaning. So in this case, you would initially be tested on "сестра - sister", and then once you had tested correctly on that a couple of times, you would start being tested on the other forms. Is there any abbreviated way to write this - typing out "сестра, сёстры, сестёр, сестрам" seems like a lot to write out in a test. However on the other hand, if we did go with this plan, then anyone who did not want to be tested on these parts could just click "ignore grammatical forms" and they would not be tested on them. Would this be useful? would there be forms of the verb to put in there as well? and for other parts of speech? Or does this make things more complex than they need to be?4 - I am not really qualified to offer an opinion here - my only concern would be that this is a lot to write in a single answer. Is that a legitimate concern, or not? Perhaps we could add a simpler form as an "alternative russian"? Or is that just plain wrong?5 - sounds sensible.What does everyone else think? Shall we try to get some conventions written down over the next few days? It might be best for someone to take the lead in writing a draft, an then post it as a new forum post Then everyone else can add comments or specific edits. And we can home in on a consensus, with any luck.Great stuff, this is very exciting - and yes, I think that the amount of material already on the site for Russian means that we really are very close to getting Russian to the "featured" level.Thanks!Ben

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • 1 - I answered below about the stress marks - so if you can let me have a list of letters which might have stress marks, then I can add that in for answering.2 - Actually I have just been having a discussion about this for the Czech conventions. The suggestion there has been to add the "perfective" or "imperfective" after the english translation. So that when you were testing from the English, the test would say, e.g. "to give (imperfective)" which would mean that you had to type the right version. This means that the perfective and imperfective forms would be added as separate items. They could be connected by adding them as "confusables" of each other. This would mean that you could see one when you learned the other. It would also mean that they turn up quite often in the same multiple choices so that you focus on telling them apart. Is that useful in this case?We could add the "type" of the verb to the "special properties" field. This field will show up when you are learning a word, just underneath the word. It would be best to keep the information in the field short for display reasons - so "type 1" would be better than listing all of the grammatical parts. Alternatively this information could be put in the "part of speech" field as "type 1 verb". Which do you think would work best?3 - these different forms could be added in as "russian alternatives" - that way they would be displayed but not tested. Or, they could be added in in the "pronunciation" field. We could re-name this field "grammatical forms" or similar. That way the items in that field would start being tested once you had got to grips with the basic meaning. So in this case, you would initially be tested on "сестра - sister", and then once you had tested correctly on that a couple of times, you would start being tested on the other forms. Is there any abbreviated way to write this - typing out "сестра, сёстры, сестёр, сестрам" seems like a lot to write out in a test. However on the other hand, if we did go with this plan, then anyone who did not want to be tested on these parts could just click "ignore grammatical forms" and they would not be tested on them. Would this be useful? would there be forms of the verb to put in there as well? and for other parts of speech? Or does this make things more complex than they need to be?4 - I am not really qualified to offer an opinion here - my only concern would be that this is a lot to write in a single answer. Is that a legitimate concern, or not? Perhaps we could add a simpler form as an "alternative russian"? Or is that just plain wrong?5 - sounds sensible.What does everyone else think? Shall we try to get some conventions written down over the next few days? It might be best for someone to take the lead in writing a draft, an then post it as a new forum post Then everyone else can add comments or specific edits. And we can home in on a consensus, with any luck.Great stuff, this is very exciting - and yes, I think that the amount of material already on the site for Russian means that we really are very close to getting Russian to the "featured" level.Thanks!Ben

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/2/11 (2 years ago)
    1. Here are the Russian vowels that can have stress (in no particular order): е́ а́ о́ я́ ю́ у́ и́ ы́ ё (similar to a German Umlaut, always stressed) I believe that's all of them, but I might have missed one thinking off the top of my head.2. I would say no to your suggestion. I think it's much more constructive to learn the verbs as pairs, because you essentially need to know both variants to fully utilize a verb like in English. Always putting them together helps you connect the verbs closely together in your mind and also helps you remember patterns, because many verbs follow a set infinitive form and conjugation. It may be more work to write them together, but I'd really suggest entries like this: "говорить сказать", with the infinitive followed by the perfective with no comma separation, that way you just have to write them out in the correct order to get credit. Learning them apart seems counter-productive and will artifically inflate the amount of words actually being used, because you're basically using "half" a word.To your second point: I think "special properties" would be better, or, if possible, it would be even better to create a "conjugation" tab, because inflective languages like Russian really need to show often complicated conjugation schemes. It's just too important, because the entire meaning of the language is expressed through its inflection and conjugation schemes. I would be able to write up a description of the verb "types", which would then go in the general guidelines perhaps and could be referenced whenever a user wants.3. Unfortunately there's no way to write out the irregular plural forms compactly, the way I wrote it for "sister" is the standard way it's expressed in dictionaries. I do, however, want to point out that I don't think it's really necessary to test for the forms, because they're only used in (relatively) rare plural scenarios. That's why I think they should be added to the pronunciation field: you don't have to actively know the forms, but you should be confronted with them so that you think, if you ever run across the genitive plural form of sister, "wait, this has a strange form, doesn't it? 4. I think it's a legitimate concern. I would suggest, if space is an issue, to just use the Russian word "who" (кто) or "what" (что) and conjugate them to the preposition's case when entering a word which usually requires a preposition. Just like in English, some Russian words just need to have a preposition to function completely. For example: to insist "upon", or настаивать на чем; if you don't know in English that you need "upon" you're going to be using the verb "insist" incorrectly. Same thing with Russian, with the added caveat that you have to actively know the 5 cases and forms of кто and что, which, by the way, also means indirect grammar practice and, imo, reinforcing good habits.Other than that I have a nice box of semi-advanced Russian vocabulary lying around I'd like to use as a base for verbs. When I start to get some free time (university :/) I'd like to start working on a big list of verbs based on the schematic I talked about above, which people could comment on, add to, etc.
    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
    1. Here are the Russian vowels that can have stress (in no particular order): е́ а́ о́ я́ ю́ у́ и́ ы́ ё (similar to a German Umlaut, always stressed) I believe that's all of them, but I might have missed one thinking off the top of my head.2. I would say no to your suggestion. I think it's much more constructive to learn the verbs as pairs, because you essentially need to know both variants to fully utilize a verb like in English. Always putting them together helps you connect the verbs closely together in your mind and also helps you remember patterns, because many verbs follow a set infinitive form and conjugation. It may be more work to write them together, but I'd really suggest entries like this: "говорить сказать", with the infinitive followed by the perfective with no comma separation, that way you just have to write them out in the correct order to get credit. Learning them apart seems counter-productive and will artifically inflate the amount of words actually being used, because you're basically using "half" a word.To your second point: I think "special properties" would be better, or, if possible, it would be even better to create a "conjugation" tab, because inflective languages like Russian really need to show often complicated conjugation schemes. It's just too important, because the entire meaning of the language is expressed through its inflection and conjugation schemes. I would be able to write up a description of the verb "types", which would then go in the general guidelines perhaps and could be referenced whenever a user wants.3. Unfortunately there's no way to write out the irregular plural forms compactly, the way I wrote it for "sister" is the standard way it's expressed in dictionaries. I do, however, want to point out that I don't think it's really necessary to test for the forms, because they're only used in (relatively) rare plural scenarios. That's why I think they should be added to the pronunciation field: you don't have to actively know the forms, but you should be confronted with them so that you think, if you ever run across the genitive plural form of sister, "wait, this has a strange form, doesn't it? 4. I think it's a legitimate concern. I would suggest, if space is an issue, to just use the Russian word "who" (кто) or "what" (что) and conjugate them to the preposition's case when entering a word which usually requires a preposition. Just like in English, some Russian words just need to have a preposition to function completely. For example: to insist "upon", or настаивать на чем; if you don't know in English that you need "upon" you're going to be using the verb "insist" incorrectly. Same thing with Russian, with the added caveat that you have to actively know the 5 cases and forms of кто and что, which, by the way, also means indirect grammar practice and, imo, reinforcing good habits.Other than that I have a nice box of semi-advanced Russian vocabulary lying around I'd like to use as a base for verbs. When I start to get some free time (university :/) I'd like to start working on a big list of verbs based on the schematic I talked about above, which people could comment on, add to, etc.
    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • Mems are incredibly hard to create between Russian-English because word roots are just so drastically different in many cases. If people want to do it, I think the best way would be to focus on pronunciation similarities (заблюдаться - to get lost; maybe use the "блю" to make something along the lines of "I'm lost, I BLEW the job interview!". But you still need to remember the prefix AND the fact that it's a reflexive verb, no easy task if you're just taking a short bit out of the middle of the word!) But even then, I honestly think the ease of making a meme out of this word an exception, as most words are just so different. I could be wrong, though. I just gave up long ago trying to learn the words by meme trickery and kind of "brute forced" them into my head.

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • Mems are incredibly hard to create between Russian-English because word roots are just so drastically different in many cases. If people want to do it, I think the best way would be to focus on pronunciation similarities (заблюдаться - to get lost; maybe use the "блю" to make something along the lines of "I'm lost, I BLEW the job interview!". But you still need to remember the prefix AND the fact that it's a reflexive verb, no easy task if you're just taking a short bit out of the middle of the word!) But even then, I honestly think the ease of making a meme out of this word an exception, as most words are just so different. I could be wrong, though. I just gave up long ago trying to learn the words by meme trickery and kind of "brute forced" them into my head.

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/2/11 (2 years ago)
  • 1 - ok, I have added in those stressed letters to the in browser keyboard. So that should now work for answering the questions. Let me know how it goes.2 - right, what does everyone else think about this? THese arguments sound sensible to me, but I am not in a position to judge, so lets hear some more thought and then we can make a decision on this. My only hesitation is that this is different to what has been discussed in the past. So I am keen to make sure that we think through all the angles on this - undoing it will be quite tedious once we have got started!3 - ok, we can put these in the pronunciation field. We are going to need to do some work to make this look good in the learning sessions, but that is not too hard. Lets do it, and I will rename the field "plurals". Are there any other grammatical parts that could go in there?4 - this sounds like a plan to me.Great stuff. It would be brilliant to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on these, and then lets draft some conventions!Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/5/11 (2 years ago)
  • 1 - ok, I have added in those stressed letters to the in browser keyboard. So that should now work for answering the questions. Let me know how it goes.2 - right, what does everyone else think about this? THese arguments sound sensible to me, but I am not in a position to judge, so lets hear some more thought and then we can make a decision on this. My only hesitation is that this is different to what has been discussed in the past. So I am keen to make sure that we think through all the angles on this - undoing it will be quite tedious once we have got started!3 - ok, we can put these in the pronunciation field. We are going to need to do some work to make this look good in the learning sessions, but that is not too hard. Lets do it, and I will rename the field "plurals". Are there any other grammatical parts that could go in there?4 - this sounds like a plan to me.Great stuff. It would be brilliant to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on these, and then lets draft some conventions!Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/5/11 (2 years ago)
  • I like the new layout, the only problem I'm having is it's difficult to get to the editing screen of my word lists. I feel like I have to click a lot more links than with the last layout just to add new words.Two other things I wanted to ask:1) Is it possible to add a way to access the on-screen keyboard in the entry editing screen? When I add new Russian words to a list I want to add the accent mark too, otherwise I have to use ugly methods like capitalizing the stressed vowel.2) Is there any way to make a list private? I'm making my own list in Russian-German because I'm able to profit from that more than Russian-English due to my living situation. I feel, however, that I'm "cluttering" up things like the newly added words window for anyone who doesn't want to learn using German words. If it's not possible, is this a functionality that you might introduce sometime?

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/10/11 (2 years ago)
  • I like the new layout, the only problem I'm having is it's difficult to get to the editing screen of my word lists. I feel like I have to click a lot more links than with the last layout just to add new words.Two other things I wanted to ask:1) Is it possible to add a way to access the on-screen keyboard in the entry editing screen? When I add new Russian words to a list I want to add the accent mark too, otherwise I have to use ugly methods like capitalizing the stressed vowel.2) Is there any way to make a list private? I'm making my own list in Russian-German because I'm able to profit from that more than Russian-English due to my living situation. I feel, however, that I'm "cluttering" up things like the newly added words window for anyone who doesn't want to learn using German words. If it's not possible, is this a functionality that you might introduce sometime?

    Posted by TL-Holzmann 12/10/11 (2 years ago)
  • This is an interesting point - I was just having the same thought myself actually. I will look in to what we can do to improve this - perhaps add a pink on the home page to your wordset if you are the wordset author. I will discuss this with the team.1 - This is something that we have been discussing, and that we will try to get done ASAP. it is not going to be instant though I don't think. I will see what we can do.2 - I have created a new "language" and called it "Russian - German". You can find it here -  http://www.memrise.com/topic/r... In this topic your lists will be able to help other German speakers learning Russian and won't get muddled up with the English - German courses. I have made you a "topic curator" of this topic.  Hope that all helps, please let me know if I can do anything else!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/11/11 (2 years ago)
  • This is an interesting point - I was just having the same thought myself actually. I will look in to what we can do to improve this - perhaps add a pink on the home page to your wordset if you are the wordset author. I will discuss this with the team.1 - This is something that we have been discussing, and that we will try to get done ASAP. it is not going to be instant though I don't think. I will see what we can do.2 - I have created a new "language" and called it "Russian - German". You can find it here -  http://www.memrise.com/topic/r... In this topic your lists will be able to help other German speakers learning Russian and won't get muddled up with the English - German courses. I have made you a "topic curator" of this topic.  Hope that all helps, please let me know if I can do anything else!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/11/11 (2 years ago)
    1. Definitely more useful to learn verbs as pairs. Minor difficulty with verbs that are both perfective and imperfective.3. Regarding the third point, would it be possible to have a conjugation test, or a declension test: something like 'nominative plural of звезда' or third person plural of the imperfective of the verb 'to hold'?  I agree that just learning the infinitives of verbs and the nominative singular of nouns leads to problems.  This would probably take too much tinkering with the programming, though. The most basic solution would be to do what most dictionaries do, which is to list the genitive alongside the nominative somewhere. That usually covers all the irregularities with nouns.  Likewise with the third person singular of verbs.4. Completely agree with the need to add the prepositions plus case.  Adding the relevant version of 'chto' or 'kto' is standard.Also, I thought it might be useful to look at roots of words, plus prefixes in the mems.  I have found it much easier to learn Russian because I have some understanding of what prefixes like пере- при- об- do to a verb.We might also want to think about the way that words are transliterated into Latin characters. When I type in words in Russian, I always type them in in Latin. This works well (it corresponds to the Library of Congress scheme), but there are some idiosyncracies: 'e' is transliterated as 'ie' even when the 'e' is unstressed, and nothing corresponds to 'г', not even 'g', which is annoying!  It is slow and tedious to type these words in using the on-screen keyboard.I will try to add these conventions to the word list I've uploaded, time permitting!
    Posted by jetfromgladiators 12/16/11 (2 years ago)
    1. Definitely more useful to learn verbs as pairs. Minor difficulty with verbs that are both perfective and imperfective.3. Regarding the third point, would it be possible to have a conjugation test, or a declension test: something like 'nominative plural of звезда' or third person plural of the imperfective of the verb 'to hold'?  I agree that just learning the infinitives of verbs and the nominative singular of nouns leads to problems.  This would probably take too much tinkering with the programming, though. The most basic solution would be to do what most dictionaries do, which is to list the genitive alongside the nominative somewhere. That usually covers all the irregularities with nouns.  Likewise with the third person singular of verbs.4. Completely agree with the need to add the prepositions plus case.  Adding the relevant version of 'chto' or 'kto' is standard.Also, I thought it might be useful to look at roots of words, plus prefixes in the mems.  I have found it much easier to learn Russian because I have some understanding of what prefixes like пере- при- об- do to a verb.We might also want to think about the way that words are transliterated into Latin characters. When I type in words in Russian, I always type them in in Latin. This works well (it corresponds to the Library of Congress scheme), but there are some idiosyncracies: 'e' is transliterated as 'ie' even when the 'e' is unstressed, and nothing corresponds to 'г', not even 'g', which is annoying!  It is slow and tedious to type these words in using the on-screen keyboard.I will try to add these conventions to the word list I've uploaded, time permitting!
    Posted by jetfromgladiators 12/16/11 (2 years ago)
  • Great, it sounds like you guys are generally agreeing on how to proceed, no? It would be awesome to get the bones of some regulations drawn up so that we can crack on with building up the content even faster. re roots, we have talked in the past about adding in these as "depends on" items so that they are always taught first when you start learning words. We have a spreadsheet put together by some other volunteers that works on this basis and that is basically ready to upload. This might be a good option to have.It would be awesome if you could post the conventions to the forum so that we can all take a look at them and people can suggest any edits etc. Then once we have some agreement I can put them in the FAQ.Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/19/11 (2 years ago)
  • Great, it sounds like you guys are generally agreeing on how to proceed, no? It would be awesome to get the bones of some regulations drawn up so that we can crack on with building up the content even faster. re roots, we have talked in the past about adding in these as "depends on" items so that they are always taught first when you start learning words. We have a spreadsheet put together by some other volunteers that works on this basis and that is basically ready to upload. This might be a good option to have.It would be awesome if you could post the conventions to the forum so that we can all take a look at them and people can suggest any edits etc. Then once we have some agreement I can put them in the FAQ.Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   12/19/11 (2 years ago)
  • So, is there some work to be done before Russian can be featured? Anything we can help with?

    Posted by aeon 2/27/12 (2 years ago)
  • Thank you very much for this offer - it would be wonderful to have your help! I think that the first places that it would be really good to get more help with would be in recording Russian native speakers saying the words, and in checking over the content that is already on the site for errors etc. Would either of those be areas that you might be able to help with? Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   3/9/12 (2 years ago)
  • Dear Ben, I´m a native Russian, maybe I can also help with the recording? Is there some sort of guide on how do do that? 

    Posted by lantan 3/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • This would be brilliant! I think that the best set to start working on would probably be this one: http://www.memrise.com/set/100... - you can find instructions on how to do it here - http://www.memrise.com/faq/aud.... Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you very much again!Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   3/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • Was just about to download Audacity, then realised I've got Samplitude. The trouble is that for some reason there is a constant hiss, very annoying. Will try to tone it down a bit.UPD: done the best I could with the hiss, but it wouldn't go away completely... Hope it's ok still.

    Posted by lantan 3/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • Ben, In the spreadsheet, there are infinitive, and plural and inflected forms. Do we just need to record the infinitives?

    Anton

    Posted by aeon 3/15/12 (2 years ago)

Recent threads

This forum doesn't have any recent activity