How should I add Korean words and definitions into Memrise?

We are in the process of developing a set of "conventions" for how content should be added. These are intended to be a framework which will allow all users to add items to the database in a way that ensures that they are tested effectively by Memrise, and ensures maximally efficient learning.

These conventions are still a work in progress, so please add your thoughts and comments and check out the sample set that Memrise user RickCarlino(http://www.memrise.com/user/rickcarlino) has made here(http://www.memrise.com/set/10000324/korean-master-list/), which is an example that follows these conventions.

Conventions:

When adding verbs or adjectives, add them in their "dictionary" form. Do not conjugate. EX: 가다,오다,짜다...

when adding countable nouns (nouns that require an article in English), make sure you attach the article to it's definition. For example if you were adding an item for the word "낚싯대", the definition should be written as "a fishing rod" and not simply "fishing rod". Other answers that should be accepted as correct (for example "fishing rod) should be added under "alternative English".

English translations of verbs should start with the word "to" and adjectives often start with "to be". EX: To go, To come, To be salty. The other acceptable answers for these words should also be added in the "alternative English" field.

Put Chinese characters for words of Chinese origin into the etymology section.

Try not to make English definitions excessively long as it creates formatting problems.

if you are describing measure words (ex: 개, 장, 송이, etc), start the definition with "A measure word for _____"

Examples:

복습하다- to review, to prepare one's lesson (復習, academic term)

송이- a measure word for flowers

낙씻대- a fishing rod

짜다- to be salty

Posted by memrise_ 10/6/11, last update 1/22/12 (2 years ago)
  • You know Ben, looking back on what I said about words of Chinese origin, I feel that it might have been better to say "Put Chinese characters for words of Chinese origin into the etymology section of the word set". I still think that the parenthesis is a great tool for disambiguation, though. For example: 형- older brother (of a man) or 학점-points (on academic work). sometimes English has ambiguous words which are not so amiguous in Korean, so I think the parenthesis is still needed, but in a different manner.

    Posted by RickCarlino 10/7/11 (3 years ago)
  • You know Ben, looking back on what I said about words of Chinese origin, I feel that it might have been better to say "Put Chinese characters for words of Chinese origin into the etymology section of the word set". I still think that the parenthesis is a great tool for disambiguation, though. For example: 형- older brother (of a man) or 학점-points (on academic work). sometimes English has ambiguous words which are not so amiguous in Korean, so I think the parenthesis is still needed, but in a different manner.

    Posted by RickCarlino 10/7/11 (3 years ago)
  • Good idea - I have edited that now.

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   10/8/11 (3 years ago)
  • Good idea - I have edited that now.

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   10/8/11 (3 years ago)
  • I noticed their are still a lot of sets that don't use these conventions, so if I use multiple sets I sometimes get the same word more than once in different versions, so that gets a bit annoying when I then get questioned on a word I already know very well but havent't done often in this version. Is there any way to help out clearing up the database?

    Posted by izo 11/14/11 (2 years ago)
  • I noticed their are still a lot of sets that don't use these conventions, so if I use multiple sets I sometimes get the same word more than once in different versions, so that gets a bit annoying when I then get questioned on a word I already know very well but havent't done often in this version. Is there any way to help out clearing up the database?

    Posted by izo 11/14/11 (2 years ago)
  • We are going to start ranking wordlists so that you can up-vote and down vote them. This will hopefully allow you to see when the a list doesn't contain very well-entered items before you waste time starting to learn it. We are also going to create a central "checked" database of words that are a) correct and b) fit with the conventions. It would be brilliant to have some help with this task. The more people we have helping out, the easier and faster the process will be. I can give you the correct permissions so that you can edit items, and then it would be great to put you in touch with some of the other people who are working on the Korean content so that we can coordinate our word. Please email me  (ben@memrise.com)  if you would like to do this.thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   11/15/11 (2 years ago)
  • We are going to start ranking wordlists so that you can up-vote and down vote them. This will hopefully allow you to see when the a list doesn't contain very well-entered items before you waste time starting to learn it. We are also going to create a central "checked" database of words that are a) correct and b) fit with the conventions. It would be brilliant to have some help with this task. The more people we have helping out, the easier and faster the process will be. I can give you the correct permissions so that you can edit items, and then it would be great to put you in touch with some of the other people who are working on the Korean content so that we can coordinate our word. Please email me  (ben@memrise.com)  if you would like to do this.thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   11/15/11 (2 years ago)
  • I tried sending an email but gout a message from gmail that it couldn't deliver my message and will retry for the next 2 days.Are you having problems with your mail service or did you get the email?

    Posted by izo 11/16/11 (2 years ago)
  • I tried sending an email but gout a message from gmail that it couldn't deliver my message and will retry for the next 2 days.Are you having problems with your mail service or did you get the email?

    Posted by izo 11/16/11 (2 years ago)
  • I think its great that you are introducing conventions into memrise, it has to be done. I'll get to work checking my own submissions. However there are certain parts like pronunciation that work for me personally. I like to use my own romanisation, would this be interfered with by other people? I don't mind the downvoting but I would still like to use my own system.Edit: How can we show that it is the honourific version of the word, and what level? Example: '저의 = my (honourific)' and '나의 = my'Just something to think about when coming up with a convention for the Korean memrise, do we label the honourfic and not label the normal words?2nd Edit: More of a cosmetic thing, how about separators? Korean has can be translated into English different ways. For example: 길 = road / path / way / street. I personally like the '/' separator because it looks better on the memrise screen rather than ','. This stuff can be replaced pretty easily using the find/replace in excel.

    Posted by Disallowautoaim 1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • I think its great that you are introducing conventions into memrise, it has to be done. I'll get to work checking my own submissions. However there are certain parts like pronunciation that work for me personally. I like to use my own romanisation, would this be interfered with by other people? I don't mind the downvoting but I would still like to use my own system.Edit: How can we show that it is the honourific version of the word, and what level? Example: '저의 = my (honourific)' and '나의 = my'Just something to think about when coming up with a convention for the Korean memrise, do we label the honourfic and not label the normal words?2nd Edit: More of a cosmetic thing, how about separators? Korean has can be translated into English different ways. For example: 길 = road / path / way / street. I personally like the '/' separator because it looks better on the memrise screen rather than ','. This stuff can be replaced pretty easily using the find/replace in excel.

    Posted by Disallowautoaim 1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • I suggest looking at verbs as tuples, meaning, usually korean verbs have a general usage, but certain nouns in combination to a verb changes the meaning to the verb, for example. 꾸다 means to dream, but if the object is 돈 (money) it means to borrow money. And this goes for most korean verbs.Also some verbs requiere an object, other do not, this is very hard to reflect right now in memrise.Hope this helps.

    Posted by evildani 1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • I suggest looking at verbs as tuples, meaning, usually korean verbs have a general usage, but certain nouns in combination to a verb changes the meaning to the verb, for example. 꾸다 means to dream, but if the object is 돈 (money) it means to borrow money. And this goes for most korean verbs.Also some verbs requiere an object, other do not, this is very hard to reflect right now in memrise.Hope this helps.

    Posted by evildani 1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • Pronunciation is tricky - it would be best if you could put it in as a "pronunciation mem" - ie something that helps you to remember the pronunciation. If you add it by clicking "add mem" and then select "pronunciation mem" then that should work. The problem with adding something in the "pronunciation" field is that then everyone else has to look at it every time they see that word, and they can't downvote it. So it would be best to avoid that.re honorifics I think that I will have to defer to the people who have been writing the convention to answer that one :)For the separators. We are only adding a single "primary" english definition for each word and all the others are going in  as "alternative definitions". You can see all of the definitions when you aree learning at the moment by clicking "show all". We are going to make this much easier and will make a user setting so that you can "see more" by default if you prefer. For most people, particularly beginners, seeing all the definitions at once can be intimidating and counter-productive. Also if we have all of the definitions added separately then it allows us to become clever about the testing: once you have mastered the first definition we can add in tests from alternatives and that sort of thing. We can also easily find the words that you might be confusing with each other and test you on those at the same time. Basically if the words are entered with one main definition and then every other definition added as an alternative, then we will be able to build much better and richer testing tools, so we would prefer it! How does that sound?ThanksBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • Pronunciation is tricky - it would be best if you could put it in as a "pronunciation mem" - ie something that helps you to remember the pronunciation. If you add it by clicking "add mem" and then select "pronunciation mem" then that should work. The problem with adding something in the "pronunciation" field is that then everyone else has to look at it every time they see that word, and they can't downvote it. So it would be best to avoid that.re honorifics I think that I will have to defer to the people who have been writing the convention to answer that one :)For the separators. We are only adding a single "primary" english definition for each word and all the others are going in  as "alternative definitions". You can see all of the definitions when you aree learning at the moment by clicking "show all". We are going to make this much easier and will make a user setting so that you can "see more" by default if you prefer. For most people, particularly beginners, seeing all the definitions at once can be intimidating and counter-productive. Also if we have all of the definitions added separately then it allows us to become clever about the testing: once you have mastered the first definition we can add in tests from alternatives and that sort of thing. We can also easily find the words that you might be confusing with each other and test you on those at the same time. Basically if the words are entered with one main definition and then every other definition added as an alternative, then we will be able to build much better and richer testing tools, so we would prefer it! How does that sound?ThanksBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/10/12 (2 years ago)
  • Wow, thanks for the quick reply. It's always great to see questions being answered.That's a great idea for the alternative definitions and mixing it in the test, really brilliant! As for the pronunciation that people 'have to' see it would be nice to have an option to 'hide'. I guess if you could limit the input system for 'pronunciation' using only the phonetic alphabet. I have my pronunciation stored as mem's they get downvoted and I can understand why (they work for me, maybe not for others). A quick word on the upvoting/downvoting. Should there be downvoting at all? I mean I hate to seem all touchy-feely about it but would it not be better to have a positive learning environment? If it were only upvotes the best mems would float to the top and others would remain at the bottom, but not buried under downvotes. Also if you take away downvoting then you might actually encourage other people to create their own mems, instead of just having the 'satisfaction' of downvoting. What I don't like seeing is downvoting and no other mem put in its place. I can understand my mem's are not the best but when you get downvoted on your own list without any feedback or someone making a better mem it kinda sucks. Flagging information as inaccurate is different but I just don't understand the productivity of downvoting someone else's mem (how can they be wrong/right?).Thanks so much for your effort here, I can see this site having a great future!

    Posted by Disallowautoaim 1/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • Wow, thanks for the quick reply. It's always great to see questions being answered.That's a great idea for the alternative definitions and mixing it in the test, really brilliant! As for the pronunciation that people 'have to' see it would be nice to have an option to 'hide'. I guess if you could limit the input system for 'pronunciation' using only the phonetic alphabet. I have my pronunciation stored as mem's they get downvoted and I can understand why (they work for me, maybe not for others). A quick word on the upvoting/downvoting. Should there be downvoting at all? I mean I hate to seem all touchy-feely about it but would it not be better to have a positive learning environment? If it were only upvotes the best mems would float to the top and others would remain at the bottom, but not buried under downvotes. Also if you take away downvoting then you might actually encourage other people to create their own mems, instead of just having the 'satisfaction' of downvoting. What I don't like seeing is downvoting and no other mem put in its place. I can understand my mem's are not the best but when you get downvoted on your own list without any feedback or someone making a better mem it kinda sucks. Flagging information as inaccurate is different but I just don't understand the productivity of downvoting someone else's mem (how can they be wrong/right?).Thanks so much for your effort here, I can see this site having a great future!

    Posted by Disallowautoaim 1/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • Now that we have a fairly comprehensive list of words is there actually a way to merge duplicate entries?

    Posted by izo 1/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • Now that we have a fairly comprehensive list of words is there actually a way to merge duplicate entries?

    Posted by izo 1/13/12 (2 years ago)
  • I've been adding some grammar entries in my lists, and typing '-' in the front of the word, i.e. "-고말고" means "of course." This is to help remind anyone doing the list that it cannot stand alone. Would this be a good idea, or are grammatical constructions not being added? Also, in all of my Korean books, this is how it is displayed in the index. Would users remember to type the '-' first?  And I need to fix my lists to fit these conventions.

    Posted by srwigginton 1/14/12 (2 years ago)
  • I've been adding some grammar entries in my lists, and typing '-' in the front of the word, i.e. "-고말고" means "of course." This is to help remind anyone doing the list that it cannot stand alone. Would this be a good idea, or are grammatical constructions not being added? Also, in all of my Korean books, this is how it is displayed in the index. Would users remember to type the '-' first?  And I need to fix my lists to fit these conventions.

    Posted by srwigginton 1/14/12 (2 years ago)
  • Your comment has been added to version 2.1 of the community guidelines, which will be published soon.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/15/12 (2 years ago)
  • Your comment has been added to version 2.1 of the community guidelines, which will be published soon.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/15/12 (2 years ago)
  • If enough people wanted to replace the coma with a slash, it would take about 2 seconds to do a find and replace, but I think the "/" is distracting and like the coma for its subtlety. Does anyone else care to put some input on this? My only logic behind this is personal preference, so whatever the consensus is is fine.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/15/12 (2 years ago)
  • If enough people wanted to replace the coma with a slash, it would take about 2 seconds to do a find and replace, but I think the "/" is distracting and like the coma for its subtlety. Does anyone else care to put some input on this? My only logic behind this is personal preference, so whatever the consensus is is fine.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/15/12 (2 years ago)
  • Yes, there is take a look at this screencast introduction to the merging/moderation process (http://vzaar.com/videos/895052..., and then let me know if you have any questions. I think that at least at the start we should keep quite a tight handle on who can merge items, because it is not a reversible process so it needs to be done carefully. So could you let me know which people should have the moderation permissions, and then I will set them up.Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/16/12 (2 years ago)
  • Yes, there is take a look at this screencast introduction to the merging/moderation process (http://vzaar.com/videos/895052..., and then let me know if you have any questions. I think that at least at the start we should keep quite a tight handle on who can merge items, because it is not a reversible process so it needs to be done carefully. So could you let me know which people should have the moderation permissions, and then I will set them up.Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/16/12 (2 years ago)
  • I was thinking that it would be good if the topic curators had these permissions.

    Posted by izo 1/17/12 (2 years ago)
  • I was thinking that it would be good if the topic curators had these permissions.

    Posted by izo 1/17/12 (2 years ago)
  • Great, that may well be the right answer for Korean - in other languages, many of the curators are quite early learners who are just using dictionaries to check stuff and aren't confident of doing the merging correctly and don't want that responsibility. But you guys are all pretty involved, so I can certainly give you all moderation permission if you would like. Any other thoughts for the other curators? Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/18/12 (2 years ago)
  • Great, that may well be the right answer for Korean - in other languages, many of the curators are quite early learners who are just using dictionaries to check stuff and aren't confident of doing the merging correctly and don't want that responsibility. But you guys are all pretty involved, so I can certainly give you all moderation permission if you would like. Any other thoughts for the other curators? Best wishesBen

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/18/12 (2 years ago)
  • I would definitely like the merge permissions. It would give me a chance to weed out a lot of the "non standard" duplicates.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/21/12 (2 years ago)
  • I would definitely like the merge permissions. It would give me a chance to weed out a lot of the "non standard" duplicates.

    Posted by RickCarlino 1/21/12 (2 years ago)
  • Ok, I have activated RickCarlino and izo as topic moderators - who else would like those permissions? Could you two ask around to see if anyone else who might be keen just hasn't seen this post? And let me know if you have any questions about the moderation stuff.Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/22/12 (2 years ago)
  • Ok, I have activated RickCarlino and izo as topic moderators - who else would like those permissions? Could you two ask around to see if anyone else who might be keen just hasn't seen this post? And let me know if you have any questions about the moderation stuff.Thanks!

    Posted by BenWhately Staff   1/22/12 (2 years ago)

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