Same plants have been wilting for a while

Since the database upheaval of this weekend the same three to four words seem to be stuck in a wilting phase. Even when I water them they are usually not removed from the wilting list which is quite annoying. I'm just writing this to ask if it's a known bug.

Posted by Saepe 8/20/12, last update 10/30/12 (1 year ago)
  • I had this problem myself and let them know. Apparently they are working on it.

    Posted by Big_Kahuna 8/20/12 (2 years ago)
  • @saepe - make sure to put a comment on the particular words through the comment/discussion tab. Label it - constantly wilting. This way - memrise can focus those particular entries that are troubling you and not looking through an entire database.

    Posted by jenniferhunter 8/20/12 (2 years ago)
  • I will

    Posted by Saepe 8/20/12 (2 years ago)
  • I did what Jennifer suggested for some of the words having this problem, in my case:

    可 ke3 can 且 qie3 moreover 服 fu2 to serve 前面 qian2mian4 ahead 系 ji4 to fasten 高 gao1 tall

    Then I noticed these are all words on which I have recently started being quizzed on pronounciation, within the last week or so. Maybe the list is different for everybody?

    Laoban said the character 尼 had this problem as well, but for me it does not seem to have any problem.

    Posted by tortoide 8/21/12 (2 years ago)
  • For me they're also words I only recently learned to pronounce. So probably it's because they're status changed in the database recently or something like that?

    Posted by Saepe 8/21/12 (2 years ago)
  • Maybe I was too quick, because now I see only two of those still have the 'problem', fu2 and qian2mian4.

    Maybe it is just a change in the algorith of which words are considered watered or not, and that it now takes many correct answers after a mistake before it is seen as watered?

    Posted by tortoide 8/21/12 (2 years ago)
  • I'm getting the same problem. Yesterday, I had to water 牛 four or five times; today, immediately after I watered 饺子,父,and 母, I was told they were wilting again.

    It makes sense if I have to re-water something I got wrong (I got 牛 and 饺子 wrong), but I get the rest right and still have to water them again a few more times. :/

    Posted by pingKL 8/23/12 (2 years ago)
  • +1

    Posted by Burnaron 8/23/12 (2 years ago)
  • I actually like the extra waterings. I feel like it helps me focus on a couple of words as opposed to the mix of words in the watering session.

    Posted by jenniferhunter 8/24/12 (2 years ago)
  • In fact, not only some plants are incredibly thirsty, but also the watering periods are wrong...

    Posted by Burnaron 8/24/12 (2 years ago)
  • Problem still there for maybe 20 of my words, any time for fix admin? Thanks

    Posted by juliantanner 8/29/12 (2 years ago)
  • I know this may be odd - but I noticed that some of the words that I have a lot of difficulty remembering the pinyin form are the ones that were constantly wilting. I would have to water them 3-4 times - back to back watering sessions (less than 1 minute in between each session). However - they did eventually get watered. I liked it because it allowed me to focus on the pinyin for those very troublesome words instead of having to wait a couple of hours till the next watering session. Is this what is happening with the people who have a wilting issue?

    Posted by jenniferhunter 8/29/12 (2 years ago)
  • In my case, yes, it's always plants whose pinyin I got wrong. I see how it can be good for you, but after a while, it just feels like nagging.

    Posted by pingKL 8/30/12 (2 years ago)
  • Oh, it might not just be plants whose pinyin I got wrong. I just got tested and retested for words whose pinyin I haven't gotten wrong yet. :/

    Posted by pingKL 8/30/12 (2 years ago)
  • Problem still there. Every day seems to be different words, where maybe 10 of the 200 or so words i water remain parched even after correct answer. After multiple waterings they eventually are no longer parched but still get retested after 1 day (these are 7/7 growth words so it should be weeks or months).

    Clearly some bug in algorithm that needs fixing.

    Posted by juliantanner 9/3/12 (2 years ago)
  • A constantly wilting plant would never stop wilting. Memrise would have to fix (move the entry to the correct wiki) for it to stop wilting. If I can remove the wilt from the plant with a couple of back-to-back watering sessions, it means that it is part of the algorithm. That's why I don't think it's a bug.

    This is my experience and you may not necessarily have the same experience.
    1)I don't get that many "constantly wilting" plants. (I suspect because my error rate is relatively low.) The one's that do get the "constantly watering" treatment are pinyin related for me. These plants are the one's that I have consistently entered incorrectly.
    2)When I go onto Memrise for a watering session, I water and water until the wilt goes away. (For me - that's not a lot because I don't get a lot of constantly wilting plants. To put it in perspective - I have gotten at the most 5 wilting plants but most often it's only 0-3 wilting plants. Maybe that's why I don't consider it irritating.) AND NO - I don't water plants all day long. I water at timed intervals with several hours in between each watering session. 3) Eventually - I get the pinyin input test. Again - with the way I handle the wilters - it doesn't take long to get to this stage. I usually get the pinyin correct. The next time I see the plant is 1 day later. (This closely parallels the sprouting/harvesting timing, i.e. if you make no errors while sprouting and harvesting, then the next watering session is 1 day later.) The end result is this - eventually, if you continually answer correctly - you will not see that plant for a while. (In fact, the lower the error rate, the fewer incidences of "constantly wilting plants".) I would advise anyone who has a lot of wilters to look at those wilters and determine what type they are - 1) a genuine bug (a plant that never stops wilting) or (2) Memrise's way making sure that you do learn the entry's definition, pinyin, whatever.

    Posted by jenniferhunter 9/3/12 (2 years ago)
  • Even if it wasn't a bug, it's becoming a big question of productivity. Maybe it's fine if your watering sessions are staggered, but in my case, I'd rather use Memrise only once or twice a day. I usually get 10-20 plants "endlessly" wilting at a time, even with a 90-100% error rate. It's just getting way too time-consuming.

    Posted by pingKL 9/4/12 (2 years ago)
  • If it's not a bug, but a new way of focusing on the ones we get wrong, then it's possibly just gone a little too far that way. In theory it's a good idea to make us go over the ones we got wrong at the end, but it's annoying when there's one character and I've watered it ten times in a row and it's still "parched". Furthermore these reviews are always the same style of review (usually for me a four-character choice from a pinyin example), it would be better as a review if there was a variety.

    Posted by eldavide 9/4/12 (2 years ago)
  • @eldavide- really? ten times? I've not had to water any one plant that often. I agree with the variety - but I've noticed a progression from 4 choice to 8 choice, mandarin in the button choices, English definition being in the button choices that is similar to what we do in the sprouting process. Are you saying that you only get 4 part MC and you don't progress further?

    @pingKL - 10-20 plants is not an indication of your overall error rate. It means that you are screwing up one word several times. Those 10/20 words are words that you are not answering correctly often enough. If you are answering correctly enough - they will disappear. Every wilter I've had has disappeared. What are you doing that I'm not? Or rather - what am I doing that you are not doing? I guarantee that if I watered twice a day, I still wouldn't have 10-20 wilters and I have several hundred characters in my garden.

    Posted by jenniferhunter 9/4/12 (2 years ago)
  • Yeah, for example I actually gave up trying to get rid of 红烧茄子 from the Restaurant Survival deck because it just gave me the same 4 part multiple choice (Pinyin at the top and character MC) so many times, I stopped counting around 7.

    Admittedly I had gotten that one wrong in the initial review, but then it was a 7/7 mature plant. I thought the normal response to that would not be to take you right back to the first level multiple choice and make you do over and over but to give you another shot at typing in the pinyin (this is what happens most of the time it seems). Anyway it's not a major issue, just a little frustrating!

    Posted by eldavide 9/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • jenniferhunter's last few responses have made me pay more attention to today's watering sessions. I took some notes to see if there wasn't some method to this "constantly wilting" madness, and here are some hypotheses based on what I've seen today:

    1. Parched or thirsty status does not go away until growth level reaches 7/7.
    2. Sometimes, 7/7 thirsty/parched requires extra watering anyway.
    3. Mistakes mean the plant will go down a growth level and wilt again later in the day.

    I'm not 100% sure, so I'm going to take more notes tomorrow. But if you're interested in my notes from today, they're below. (--) is a divider between watering rounds.

    MORNING SESSION Survival: 19 wilters HSK 1: 21 wilters

    Survival 女 6/7 ready for watering crown 5/7 parched 巳 5/7 parched 条 6/7 thirsty 饭 7/7 ready for watering 酉 7/7 thirsty 几 7/7 ready for watering 酒 6/7 parched stick 7/7 thirsty 酱 6/7 ready for watering 茶 7/7 parched 烧 1/7 ready for watering 烧烤 1/7 ready for watering bowl 1/7 ready for watering 北 1/7 ready for watering 北京 1/7 ready for watering 干 1/7 ready for watering 南 1/7 ready for watering 上 1/7 ready for watering -- 巳 6/7 parched stick 7/7 thirsty

    My only mistake was 饭, but it was not wilting the next round. crown did not reappear, which is one counter to my theory.

    Because of Survival's overlap with HSK 1, I decided to tackle 巳 and stick along with the rest of the HSK 1 wilters.

    HSK 1 好 7/7 ready for watering 垂 7/7 ready for watering 巳 6/7 parched 身 7/7 ready for watering stick 7/7 thirsty 谢 7/7 ready for watering 九 5/7 parched 午 1/7 ready for watering 上午 1/7 ready for watering sign 1/7 ready for watering 视 1/7 ready for watering -- 巳 7/7 parched -- 巳 7/7 healthy

    Like crown in my Survival garden, 九 did not reappear for another round — yet.

    AFTERNOON SESSION Survival: 5 wilters HSK 1: 6 wilters

    Survival crown 6/7 Thirsty 巳 7/7 Thirsty 饭 5/7 Thirsty 酒 7/7 Ready for watering 刀 2/7 parched

    Note that 饭 is suddenly back and 5/7 thirsty; this is why I think making a mistake will make a word wilt again later on.

    Results of the repeat waterings:

    刀 3/7 parched 饭 6/7 thirsty 酒 7/7 ready for watering -- 刀 4/7 parched 饭 7/7 healthy 酒 7/7 healthy -- 刀 5/7 parched -- 刀 6/7 parched -- 刀 7/7 healthy

    HSK 1 wilters (remaining after Survival) 么 7/7 ready for watering 九 6/7 thirsty -- 九 7/7 thirsty -- 九 7/7 thirsty -- 九 7/7 healthy

    Posted by pingKL 9/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • Woah, sorry about the giant text. I don't know how that happened. :/

    Posted by pingKL 9/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • I also have needy plants are constantly demanding water. Tonight I noticed that whenever I get tested with the pinyin, and get to choose from hanzi, the watering has no effect. When I got tested with the hanzi and I needed to answer choosing from a pinyin list, the plant would be happily watered.

    Posted by faguoren 9/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • Oh and by the way, I consider this a bug and very annoying.

    Posted by faguoren 9/5/12 (2 years ago)
  • Yesterday, I figured the following:

    1. Parched or thirsty status does not go away until growth level reaches 7/7.
    2. Sometimes, 7/7 thirsty/parched requires extra watering anyway.
    3. Mistakes mean the plant will go down a growth level and wilt again later in the day.

    Today's observations:

    1. A plant will stay at 7/7 ready status until you've been tested on both its definition and its pinyin. So, if you watered it the first time it was 7/7 ready and had to supply its meaning, it'll still be 7/7 ready for another watering, so you can supply its pinyin.
    2. Mistakes definitely mean that the plant goes down some growth levels, maybe at least two. Each time I got a 7/7 plant wrong in the morning, I would have to water it again in the afternoon, and it would be only 5/7.
    3. The 7/7 thirsty plants that just stay thirsty for three or four waterings (#2 above) seem to be a bug; they just don't go away until the test type changes. This is similar to faguoren's observation above. But in my case, I was tested on one word three times, each time to give the correct pinyin. Only when the test changed and asked me to choose the correct hanzi did the plant finally become 7/7 healthy.
    Posted by pingKL 9/6/12 (2 years ago)
  • I've had a similar thing - if it's a bug then it's incredibly annoying, and eating hours of my life watering the same word that I now know well. If it's a design feature then I think it's overly penalising mistakes such that if I get a word wrong, or even misclick or time out due to having to look away, then I have to spend minutes trying to re-water that plant - which adds up!

    Some numbers: Currently whenever I water 50 plants at a time, my plants remaining count goes down by about 30. There are ~5 mistakes in there, and I did it pretty quickly so I doubt too many plants will just become thirsty in ten minutes. So that's between 10-15 (20-30%) of my plants need repeatedly watering after I get them right! And they need watering straight away, which is pointless if you are trying to clear a massive 300 word backlog, as you come across the same words every single set of 50...

    Posted by luminara 9/6/12 (2 years ago)
  • It must be a bug - I have to water and rewater (actually up to 8 times) words that I am pretty sure I very seldomly got wrong (started with HSK1 although I had prior CHinese skills). So, memrise team, if you read this, please fix this asap! I am tired of spending about 15-20 minutes a day repeatedly watering very basic characters instead of concentrating on new words!! :)

    Posted by MarianneCLP 9/7/12 (2 years ago)
  • Some more data: Of the 532 words in my HSK2 wordlist, there are currently 269 wilting. Around 70% of those are parched. Now, I don't know how long it takes for plants to become parched, but I watered every single item in this list until it was green three days ago (which took me hours). And then two days ago, I had ~270 words needing watering. All of which I have watered in the last couple of days. Sure, some of them I got wrong, but not that many (I average 85% correct rate). As a case in point, I now have wo3 (I/me) as parched. I watered it ten minutes ago, and I'm pretty sure I've never got it wrong. I now regard this as a bug, and because watering ~250 words per day is an unsustainably large amount of time spent on memrise (especially when now of 50 words watered, on average 15 will remain parched and need to be watered again - 250 words is around 10 watering runs of 50 for me now), I just can't water much until this is fixed.

    Posted by luminara 9/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • Again, of then next set of 50 (HSK2), I made 6 mistakes. And yet, of the 50 I had just watered, 21 were either parched or thirsty. And only three of those were ones I got wrong. So whenever I water 50 words, somewhere between 30-40% of them don't get watered properly.

    This is now VERY annoying, and I consider it a serious issue. It's increasing the time I spend watering by about 2-3 times as long as it used to be, and to do the daily watering, well it's impossible, as it takes over an hour, every day, just for watering this one list.

    PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP!!!

    Posted by luminara 9/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • I'd be surprised if the Memrise team didn't know about this issue/bug/complaint by now, so it's strange that we haven't heard from any of them about it. A quick "We are working to fix this before v1.0 drops" would be nice, at least.

    sigh

    Let's hope that's what they're doing and that this cycle won't be permanent. :/ The most I've had to water so far is about 60 wilters. It's manageable now, but I don't want to keep using this site if the more I learn, the more unreasonable the practice demands get.

    I mean, 200+ words? I feel for you, luminara17.

    Posted by pingKL 9/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • I find a lot of these words aren't ones I've gotten wrong -- they are words I just recently learned the pinyin for (and answered correctly).

    I am guessing the memrise crew is not going to be doing much about any of the bugs on the current site and are instead focusing on getting the new site ready to go... that is what I am hoping anyway.

    To test, I watered a few words 10 times in a row -- they remained desperate for water. I clicked "edit" on a few of them and several of them were now waterable. Others could be watered when I waited a bit and came back. It does seem a bit random at times.

    Posted by Big_Kahuna 9/11/12 (2 years ago)
  • bump 'cause I'm annoyed

    Posted by the_undeleted 9/28/12 (2 years ago)
  • Just had the same issue -- this is particularly a problem because the iphone app automatically submits (incorrectly) if you try and use the on-screen "extra keys" used to designate the tones (Mandarin), so you get the error even if you knew the right answer! :P

    Posted by nnovik 9/29/12 (2 years ago)
  • 你们好,guys. I was gone for a week and was happy to see the progress bar back. What else is new, now that Memrise 1.0 has dropped? Do we still have persistently wilting plants?

    Posted by pingKL 10/11/12 (1 year ago)
  • I'm still having this problem. It's quite frustrating and for the memrise team to ignore this huge bug while they push out 1.0. I am unable to study any Chinese because of this bug.

    Posted by galith 10/21/12 (1 year ago)
  • I'm still having them too...

    Posted by Burnaron 10/21/12 (1 year ago)
  • I have this issue as well, now that my words are up too 200, watering almost the same 50 words a day is getting to be a chore.

    Posted by andrew.vh 10/22/12 (1 year ago)
  • Hey, here's another person with the same problem...I just had to water one word 7 times (and I always got the right answer), before it was healthy again. That's kinda annoying. >.<

    Posted by Hypatia 10/30/12 (1 year ago)

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